VAMPIRE? THE BURIAL OF ZOSIA IN PIEN POLAND SHOWS EVIDENCE THAT SHE WAS BELIEVED TO BE!

What a wonderful article, including a facial reconstruction of what this young woman looked like.

SMITHSONIAN : BURIAL WITH SICKLE ACROSS HER NECK AND LOCK ON HER TOE Designed to prevent her from rising again...

Excerpt: Archaeologists sometimes refer to these types of graves as “anti-vampiric,” despite the fact that the term only came into widespread use in Europe in the 18th century. Although news reports sensationally identified Zosia as a “vampire,” in this context, the label more accurately functions “as a broader category denoting a demonic being,” the authors write in the paper. In the 17th century, people might have been classified as “demonic” or “vampiric” simply because they were outsiders to the local community, religious heretics or orphans. Those who died by suicide, drowning, in childbirth or under other tragic circumstances might also be viewed with suspicion.

THE ENEMY AT THE GATE by ANDREW WHEATCROFT on THE SIEGE OF VIENNA IN 1683

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

I have a confession to make. I didn't read this book cover to cover as I usually do before posting. But I can say that all the positive reviews are right. It really is riveting!  I just had one interruption after another as I tried to read it and I think this book takes some deep concentration to grasp the details of battles and all the various historical characters. But, just because this isn't the best time for me to read it, doesn't mean you can't. I think it's one for the shelf of anyone interested in the history of Hungary and thereabouts.

Author Wheatcroft assures us that both sides claimed victories and both war-craft and heroism are emphasized. It is rich with descriptions of the Ottoman's tent-cities, the taking of slaves - those from Royal Hungary were especially prized. This battle was a pivotal one because, after it, the Ottoman Turks were not able to further expand their empire into Europe. It was the first time that the Holy Roman Empire (Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I) and the Polish Lithuanian Commonweath, under the command of King John III Sobieski together went against the Ottoman Turks (Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha)and their empire. To this day, when someone tells me that they consider the Poles and the Hungarians to be 'friends' I know that idea comes from their collaboration in war.

***

As you may have seen, some of the earliest heraldic crests that identify noble families have images of success against the Turks. The armies that went against the Turks were quite outnumbered. There was tremendous sacrifice of life.  It was a war for dominance, but not just for land, but also for religion. 

I am so weary of violence, destruction, war, on this planet. Maybe it's simply a fact of life on earth and will never end. Like plagues have, the loss of men who went to war dramatically allowed the marriage or remarriage between classes of people and inheritance.

C 2026 Magyar American BlogSpot  Book Recommendation  

All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

GENETEKA POLAND DATABASES - SEARCH FOR HUNGARIAN SURNAMES

 

Yes, there are sections of the Geneteka for Ukraine and Belarus, and it is a work in progress, but here we will link to the PODKARPAKIE province which hugs the present Slovak border - which used to be the Hungarian border.

GENETEKA POLAND DATABASE - PODKARPAKIE

Try running some names such as Szabo and Takacs... Matyas*  Balint ... Soltesz ...

THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE : GALICIA : CADASTRAL MAPS : HOUSE NUMBERS : GENEALOGY GEN-TIPS SERIES #5

THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE : GALICIA : CADASTRAL MAPS : HOUSE NUMBERS : GENEALOGY GEN-TIPS SERIES #5

Austrian-Hungarian Empire - Gen Tip # 5

While MAGYAR AMERICAN focuses on Hungarian culture and society, we can learn a lot from research in Poland, Slovakia, and other parts of what was the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.

Hungary and Poland have history together - both good and bad. Rakoczi's armys destroyed towns in southern Poland, for instance. 

I mentioned before, here at MAGYAR-AMERICAN BlogSpot about finding some Hungarian surnames in church records for Galicia - Poland, and a notation in a marriage record in a Roman Catholic church that the bride came from Hungary. That was a small town involved in the wine business. I suspect this would be more true in records for cities, such as Krakow.

I think you'll find that people with means would travel far for marriages. They were also more likely to marry in the more impressive churches and cathedrals. And if you "know" that a certain noble ancestor lived in a place but their marriages and other records seem to be missing consider the larger church or cathedral not too far away.

Although it was an extremely small sample, I recently ran the names of the known nobility who owned a particular area of Galicia just a few miles from the then-Hungarian border in the GENETEKA databases and none of their names came up. So what was happening? First, some of the churches, while incredibly beautiful and ornate inside, didn't seat too many people. So if you were having many guests to your religious ceremony, you needed more space. But then, you probably needed more space for the festivities as well, and somewhere for guests who traveled to stay for a few days. Also, you might have a private chapel or church on your own property and having services there would protect you and your guests from the villagers intent on witnessing the goings-on and invading your privacy. However, this also means that they kept private records of their births and marriages if those names are also not coming up as recorded in any of the dozens of church books now transcribed for the Geneteka databases. Today I would think that such records would make their way to the diocese archive but back in the day? Common people were keeping records of births and marriages and deaths handwritten in their Bible...

In January 2022 I did a series called  Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia which you can reference.

GENETEKA English

You  might want to run some Hungarian surnames in the databases of other European countries as well.

Some of the noble families donated their private records to The National Archives in Hungary.

All posts in this series have the tab Austrian-Hungarian Empire - Gen Tips

C 2024-2025 Magyar American BlogSpot - All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE : GALICIA : CADASTRAL MAPS : HOUSE NUMBERS : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY GEN-TIPS SERIES #1

THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE : GALICIA : CADASTRAL MAPS : HOUSE NUMBERS : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY GEN-TIPS SERIES #1

This is the start of an expansive series on the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and the use of maps....  Stick with me!  There's a lot to learn together.  As with all my other Hungarian Genealogy Tips, the series name is put on each tab so you can pull it all up.

THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE : GALICIA : CADASTRAL MAPS : HOUSE NUMBERS

INTRODUCTION TO THIS SERIES : Austrian-Hungarian Empire - Gen Tip #1

This icon, from Graphics Fairy, is being used to designate posts for this series.

A WORD ABOUT THE HISTORY OF GALICIA, CADASTRAL MAPS, and HUNGARY.

You say, "What? I thought Magyar-American BlogSpot was all about Hungarian and Hungarian-Americans! Why are we talking about Galicia? Wasn't that in Poland?  

Well... I always advise that a genealogist research the history of the locations that they find their ancestors and use historical records hand in hand with genealogy records. A good part of Poland was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.

The historical time we are focusing on and that is valuable to Hungarian researchers is when Galicia was a territory that was once owned by the Austrian Crown, and then the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. 

Austrian-Hungarian Empire

Österreichisch-Ungarische Monarchie in GERMAN

Osztrák–Magyar Monarchia in HUNGARIAN means Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy

Here's some historical background:

As a territory under the rule of  the Austrian Crown and then the Austrian-Hungarian empire, Galicia came into being in 1772, in what was called the 'first partition' (of Poland). 

GALICIA was a vast expanse, which is now south-central and south - in what is now Podkarpakie (Subcarpathia) Poland, a tiny bit of what is now Slovakia but was Hungary, and a portion of what is now western Ukraine. (It's not to be confused with the Galicia of Spain though that comes up when you use databases.) The name Galicia is supposed to have come from the word Galizien which was Halychyna in Ukrainian and Halicz in Poland. 

Galicia was already an ethnically diverse area with a Polish and Carpatho-Rusyn (Ruthenian) Slavic settlers, who were mostly Roman Catholic or "Greek" Catholic. (The Greek Catholics were not ethnically Greek but were originally converted to Christianity by Christian missionaries from Greece.) However, though mostly Catholic, there were Protestants such as Lutheran Germans.

As time went on, Galicia was a good place to settle for Jews, and the Jews who came in included some Sephardic roots Jews, who had left after being exited from Spain and Portugal, as well as the Ashkenazi 'German' Jews and Russian Jews. Over time, there came to be a became significant Jewish population, mostly merchants. 

There were other immigrations of ethnic Germans into what was Hungary, but now this wave of immigration brought them in from Austria. We find the presence of Germanic surnames in Catholic records and Germans marrying Poles. These Austrian-Germans were often also nobles, administrators, and those in a higher status than the traditionally agricultural "peasants' or the men and women who earned their living through making shoes or other useful items that took skill, craft, and artistry. 

We also find Hungarian surnames in Galicia and Polish names in Hungary.

l find that the nobility was intermarrying with nobility of other ethnicities for some time - going the distance to make a good marriage - so today there is some confusion or controversy over who was a Slovak, Polish, Ruthenian, Lithuanian, or Hungarian noble. (And some nobles were also at least partly Italian, Czech, or another ethnicity.) 

One thing you should consider is that a surname might have been changed to be more Polish, more Hungarian, more German - especially note the endings: ski, sky, skyi, szke...

Through time, there were very many incursions, raids, battles and wars fought in Galicia and for it before the Nazi's. This included the Mongols and the Tatars - who took men, women, and children into slavery and marched them into the Ottoman Empire of Turkey. It also included the Swedes, and - contrary to the thought that Poland and Hungary were "always friends"  Ferenc Rakoczi II, Prince of Transylvania, and his army also came into the Podkarpakie area, devastating towns. There were also the Russians coming into Galicia, who are now in war to take Ukraine, as Russia thinks of Ukraine as a historical part of Russia.

On old maps of GALICIA you see the Carpathian mountain range is to the south, running through what is today SLOVAKIA, but was then HUNGARY. The main trade route is from southern "trade route" towns such as Dukla, Poland, through the Dukla Pass around Cergowa, Poland, and into Hungary. Once the whole region was especially significant in the wine business with travel through the Pass into the Hungarian grape growing and wine making region. Some of the Galician market towns had wine cellars for the storage of wine brought up from Hungarian wine country. There was significant trade between Hungary and Galicia of other items as well. This meant that people who identified as Hungarian and people who identified as Polish or another ethnicity were meeting up.

So valuable was this road  through the mountains called the Dukla Pass, because it was the pass with the lowest elevation, the easiest to travel, that many thousands died in World War II trying to control it. As the intention to murder the Jews in Poland became clear, many fled Galicia and came into Hungary. As well, the Carpatho-Rusyn (Ruthenians) were also forced to move by the occupying Germans to other areas than their traditional homeland, dispersing them throughout Poland. Since their homeland included places in Hungary (now Slovakia) some fled there - moving south - rather than be moved around Poland.

Regarding World War II, the Nazi's won. They used the Dukla Pass route to invade Hungary, as one of two major routes into the country. Stories were that one day the people were in the fields and markets and the next they were - gone.

It's a difficult history.

Continue on with this series ....  

All posts in this series have the tab Austrian-Hungarian Empire - Gen Tips

C 2024-2025  Magyar American BlogSpot - All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

ACKNOWLEDGING THE PAIN AND SUFFERING CAUSED BY SENSELESS WAR - SHUT UP DONALD TRUMP

I've been listening to and watching news on UKRAINE and the invasion by Russia as well as, now, Belarus, feeling sick. I'm also totally disgusted with ex President Donald Trumps open mouthy admiration for Putin.  Even an ex-President can have personal opinions, but as I see it, this is treasonous behavior.  As a public figure who was our President, his inability to know what is appropriate is astounding. There is also a total lack of sensitivity to the fact that this is not a war in which an army faces and army but a brutal attack on innocent civilians. 

I'M LUCKY THAT I LIVE IIN A COUNTRY WHERE OPINIONS ARE DIVERSE AND I CAN EXPRESS MINE. I'm glad I can blog and say so.

WHAT CAN WE SAY ABOUT SPIRITS IN HUMAN  BODIES WHO ARE OPPORTUNISTS AND USERS, WHO WAIT FOR WEAKNESS TO PREY ON OTHERS?

We can recognize EVIL. 

It is very difficult to live in this world when we feel we cannot have impact to turn it right to good.

Life is complicated and difficult and we have to seek out beauty and goodness.

There is a song "Let there Be peace on earth and let it begin with me..."

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE POLES AND THE HUNGARIANS...

JSTOR GALICIA THE POLES AND HUNGARIANS  Just want you all to know that if you can get into JSTOR through your local library (university libraries usually subscribe) you can read this paper by Bela. K. Kiraly... the two countries had a traditionally friendly relationship...

BEST NEW POLISH COOKBOOK! FRESH FROM POLAND by MICHAL KORKOSZ (It's Vegetarian!)

We're not opposed to trying new recipes or other ethnicity's cuisine are we?  

Now that libraries are reopened in my area, I went wild borrowing new books.  I have a stack of fifteen from two different libraries and this old book worm is slowly making her way through them. On the new book shelf I found this cookbook and a a couple others that focus on Polish cooking.  This one is the best.

Perhaps I needed to be awakened to the possibilities of pierogi. 

 These recipes all have a little twist to them, a little update, and Pierogi with Sauerkraut, Mushrooms, and Candied Orange Zest which is suggested for the Christmas holidays but too bad that's past, is delicious. What about goat cheese, spinach, and roasted almonds as a filling?  Oh I do so want to try several of the recipes and I'm not vegetarian!

MULTIPLE NAMES ON BIRTH RECORDS and ETHNICITY : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP #5

MULTIPLE NAMES ON BIRTH RECORDS and ETHNICITY : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP  #5 

In the United States the typical child was given two names, a first and a middle, before their surname. In some families you might find naming has to do with honoring a father or other family member.

However, it is unusual in Old Polish/Latin records for most children who were baptized to be given two names. This is not just because a person was born humble, a peasant or poor, which may be indicated by the term 'rustic' or 'Ag' = Agriculture = a farmer.  (Not all farmers were poor.  You may have to find out if they are tenant farmers or subcontractors.)

When a Christian child reached the time to be Confirmed, they got to choose a name for themselves, which was repeated by the priest or bishop who was performing the Confirmation ritual. Old school is that this is the name a person would be called in heaven, having been a 'soldier for Christ'. In the United States Polish immigrants named their child at birth, and the child used the name they chose at Confirmation as their middle name in adulthood. (So that's why three of your aunts all took the name of their mother at Confirmation.)

Try not to get genealogy myopia by looking for Honorifics or naming patterns in your research.  Quite likely it is not a person but a saint that the parent or parents were honoring. There were saint calendars with saint name days that they could look to, in order to name their child. Much depends on the church, the order of the priests who ran it, and the place they lived, how big the population was, if it was subject to outside influences because of trade and being a market town (more cosmopolitan).  If your ancestors went to a Polish speaking Catholic church as immigrants, you may find that they were still naming a child for the saint whose day they were born on or near.

I've seen pages of children born within a few days of each other all being given the same name indicating to me that the church their parents belonged to and baptized them in was very traditional. This name they found was on the Franciscan name days calendar.  The Franciscans were originally out of Italy, and this is how there got to be so many Polish Anthony's (Antonin or Antal).

If the child is Greek Catholic, the choice of names extends to some names that are rarely used within Roman Catholic churches. (Basil, Theodora, etc.) Please note that many Greek Catholics claim a Ruthenian heritage and there is now a revival and cultural awareness of this ethnic group that lived in the Carpathian Mountains and thus at least three countries (depending on the border history.  See previous posts about them!) However, when you hear the term Ukrainian, this may mean Ruthenian is the actual ethnic heritage rather than ethnically Ukrainian. In Galicia, there was significant intermarriage between the two groups, and also a group that combined Roman and Greek Catholicism called Uniates.

Now, if you see two or more given names, don't assume that those are twins. You may see the word binomial, that means two names. Gemelli is the word for twins.  Another indication of twins may be the number of godparents. Sometimes you will see that the person was given not just two names but three or four.  In this case the child most likely has parents or family that is noble, aristocratic, high ranking, notable, or rich. (But the names given still might not be honorifics) or it may simply be a Germanic influence.

Here are some articles that I thought would be of interest on this subject.

CULTURE POLAND : BEGINNERS GUIDE

This guide by Mikolaj Glinski is quite interesting, as it deals with nicknames and the origins of the rarest Slavic names.  According to his site, Mikolaj studied classics in Berlin at Humboldt University and also cultural studies at the University of Warsaw Institute of Polish Culture.

WIKITREE : POLISH and UKRANIAN NAMES

EXCERPT: Mary (Marena)  Polish 'Marya.'  Ukrainian: Mariya or Maria  (Note: "Most of our ethnic Polish ancestors who used the name Mary in American were actually baptized as Marianna.  This name isn't a combination of "Mary" and "Anna." It's actually a name that means "like Mary." In Polish culture, Mary the Mother of God was held in such reverence that it was considered sacrilegious to name a child Mary, in the same way that one didn't name a boy "Jesus" after the Son of God.  Instead, the name Marianne was used, in the hopes that the child would be like Mary."  You will see the same Marianna in Ukrainian baptisms and marriage records.

In Hungary Maria is a common name given to the first born daughter.

ROMAN CATHOLIC TRADITIONAL FRANCISCAN SAINTS CALENDER  

Please note that you should look for a calendar that was used about the time that the child was born, as there could be some variations by Holy Order and also you will notice that the majority of the saints named on this master list did not seem to get honorifics in Poland.  But let's take a look at a fictional family that has a girl child born September 4th.  Her name Rose, perhaps Rosalia or Rozalia, which comes from Saint Rose of Viterbo, and Italian saint. Let's say the next year in early September, the couple have another girl child. They can't give another girl the same name, Rose, so instead they might name that child Marianna for the Nativity (birth) of the Blessed Mother. A son born in late August - early September might be Joseph. Alternatively, another girl might be named Josefa.

If you know or suspect someone was baptized in the Greek Orthodox tradition, look for the appropriate saint calendar. On Geneteka, Greek Catholic records are clearly marked in the database as such, however, something you may find is that a surname is represented in both Roman and Greek Catholic churches.  Check the meaning of the surname.*  This will help you avoid spending time on a surname over a spelling question when the two surnames actually mean very different things though they are quite alike.

In either case, check to see if the church in the village is still standing and what the name of it is, because the records rarely record the name of the church. Some of these old churches are simply breathtaking inside.  Others feature amazing structures made of carved wood.

In Hungarian records you will see naming patterns among common people that are mostly about birth order.  Also, if a child dies, the given name may be repeated. I have yet to find that in the Polish records. So, remember that the Greek Catholic person does not have to have lived in the Ukraine and you will find Greek Catholics in Hungary - or Hungarian Lands which would include present day Slovakia and Romania too.

C 2021- 2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved Including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject. To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia

TIMELINES - THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUNGARIAN AND POLISH WOMEN IN INDEXES : USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP #4

TIMELINES - THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUNGARIAN AND POLISH WOMEN IN INDEXES  : USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP  #4

Death records I've encountered that are so far indexed on GENETEKA seem to be the least useful. I was so hoping to confirm the rumors of how certain ancestors died but cannot even find the records despite carefully paging through. Most of the reasons why someone died reveal that medical knowledge was not so advanced as it is today. I have often wondered at old people dying of "inflammation." I think this means the person probably retained water and appeared swollen by the time they died, which happens with some cancers.

I find creating a TIME LINE in which you note the dates of children who were married and what it says about their parents (i.e. is one of both deceased?) will at least help you limit your research.

Starting with a person's birth, follow them through the years for marriages and children. If you notice they are called a widow or widower on a remarriage record, then you know that by that time their previous spouse died.  If a child marries, his parents will likely be listed and it will translate to something like:

Jan, the son of the d.p.  (deceased parent) Marcus, and Marianna Sobato, means that at the time of his marriage his birth father was deceased, so there is a date that can limit your research in a positive way, but the mother is alive. By listing the births of children to Marcus' wives, and finding their marriages, you may get closer to the date of his death.

Additionally, you may have to go to the records that are not yet indexed or question what is indexed.

HERE IS MY BIG COMPLAINT ABOUT GENETEKA INDEXING.

In Hungarian records it seems understood that a woman is listed by her maiden/birth name at birth, marriage, and death, though in her community she is known as the married woman, Mrs. Szabo or Szabone. (ne suffix.)  However, in the Polish records I found women listed under their previous married name in the database. If someone has not noted that with a little :i: (information) icon then basically, you'll have to discover this yourself by reading the original records. Going to the information about her parentage is important so that you have her maiden/birth name. So, you may have to dismiss the database surname of the bride in marriages and go with what you know about the groom rather than the bride's surname.  More than one of my ancestors had three marriages due to the deaths of their first two spouses and that a careful indexer bothered to read and note the maiden name on each was of great help and made me aware this was not the case with every indexer.

C 2021- 2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved Including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips- Galicia

THE CONCERNS OF THE PRIEST - MARRIAGES : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP #3

THE CONCERNS OF THE PRIEST - MARRIAGES : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH : GENEALOGY PRO TIP  #3

Jewish records (and other minority religions such as Lutheran and Mennonite records) are available in special archives in Poland and JewishGen is a helpful database site for Jewish records. 

So far GENETEKA is primarily Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic records. Appearing in Greek Catholic records may indicate that the person is of Ruthenian (such as Lemko) heritage or of a different ethnic heritage than Hungarian or Polish. Research the surname as well, however, because there was intermarriage, especially as we go through the 1800's into the 1900's.  Also given names will be a clue as to religion and ethnicity- more on that in another post.

Be aware that if a couple moved to a village where there was only a Roman Catholic church, they might attend and worship there, and so it was with Greek Catholic churches in villages. In America they might settle where an ethnic church and belong there. There might also have been agreements between the couple to raise some children in one religion and others - the other. Typically, if the mother was Greek Catholic, she might want her daughters raised in that church but might allow her sons to follow their Roman Catholic father. **

Just think practically. A person would work hard all week and want to see Church as a pleasure - a respite - and a social opportunity - but how far do they really want to travel?  On foot?

If the town also had a Jewish temple, that might indicate that it has a larger population than a village.

What might indicate a "mixed" marriage?  Well, if the priest writes in that Banns of Marriage have occurred in two different parishes or churches, that is a clue. Sometimes the name of the church or the name of the other village appears.  Check these out on church and village history sites!  You may find the name of the church, see photos of it, even find it on a YouTube video tour.

What are banns of marriage?  A public announcement - back in the day usually from the pulpit - that a couple plan to marry.  Usually three Sundays in a row.  The idea was to give people who know the individuals to voice an objection to the marriage and stop it.  A popular story device on soap-operas for sure!  Check those dates for the day of the week they occurred.  Usually this was right before the marriage - but not always.  How much time passed between the third announcement and the marriage ceremony?

What were the good reasons to object?

Knowledge that a person is already married to someone else.  Or that the person promised marriage to someone else who is alive.

In some cases, that there is some dispute involving the inheritance (of land usually) that needs to be resolved first.  (Remember that Old Europeans did a lot of match making and that villagers might have decided what child would marry who when they grew up long before.  Sure there were love matches but these were practical people.)

Knowledge that the man - potential father in particular - is not capable of supporting a family.

Too close a relationship.  You will find that whole villages are somehow genetically related - many families intertwining. Still there was a general idea that too close cousin marriage was not a good idea.

A strong parental or authority figure objection or for some reason the marriage is seen locally as not good for the community.  

The priest will record the names and parentage of the bride and groom including their ages.  In some records the actual birth date is listed.  If it says 11/3/1879 that means March 11, 1879.  The day is first, the month is second.

Did people really not know how old they were?  Or lie.  It seems sometimes this is true. In my experience they are not too far off.

Legitimacy.

This is not just about being celibate until married for holy religious reasons. The priests baptized so many babies and the illegitimate ones tended not to thrive without the support of a father and everybody knew it. Remember at this time most women were wives and mothers and outside income was the husband's role. Sad to say but some women were taken advantage of by seducers, sexual harassers, and rapists.  And sometimes people had affairs. The most important aspect of marriage was for the bearing of and raising of children. You see the death records and you see how few children made it to adulthood and begin to feel a sense of amazement when you notice someone died in their 70's because of senility (they were just old.)

The socio-cultural-religious system endorsed marriage as the best economic way as well.

One of my ancestors was married three times due to his wives dying before he died.

If you see one woman with multiple illegitimate children - no father's name or heritage mentioned - she may be someone who is unlucky in love, a prostitute, or having an affair with a married man.  Follow her if you can and see if she every marries.  ****

If you take the DNA test and it proves you are not the actual genetic heir of a person on your chart, well it's not unheard of.

Added note Feb 3 2022  Greek Catholic records do not conform to the Julian Calendar at all times and are usually behind.  I.e Roman Catholic Christmas is December 25th, Greek Catholic (or Orthodox Christmas) is January 16th.  Which means that if a person you are seeking on records was baptized in a Roman Catholic Church on Christmas, that same person baptized in the Greek tradition would show in records baptized on January 16th - and a different year! However, you'll have to research to find out when and where there was conformity and my feeling is this.  If the records are in Latin or Polish and not Cyrillic script, then they are likely following the Julian Calander. 

** But since the Roman Catholic Church used to insist that anyone who married there would promise to raise their children Roman Catholic, you may find the children all follow the parent whose church they married in.

*** see also how long the children live. 

Added note April 2023  JewishGen appears to have sold their database to Ancestry TM.

Added note April 2023.  Geneteka is uploading some Lutheran records under the term Evangelical.

C 2021- 2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved Including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia

MAP UKRAINE SLOVAKIA POLAND

Yes there were ethnic Hungarians who lived in what is now Ukraine.

HOW ARE YOU COPING WITH THE CORONAVIRUS-19, PROTESTS - LIFE?

Comments is on.  How are YOU?

I'm OK, but I realize this is situational.  I currently live far from the protest centers  where violence and mayhem have ruined, in my opinion, the peaceful protest which was supposed to be called for by the BLACK LIVES MATTER movement.  The destruction is abhorrent to me.  I believe these destroyers are criminals and there aren't prisons enough for them.  I don't want anyone like that in my life. 

I'm relatively safe. This doesn't mean I'm not concerned.  I live in a multi racial and multi ethnic neighborhood and I worry that suddenly it won't be peaceful and safe here. Some people in the area have resisted covering their nose and mouth with masks, which I sensed was a protest earlier.  I hate wearing one but I do it. 

I also read about what's happening in Hungary - as well as Poland and Slovakia. 

In general, currently, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia, are much more conservative countries than the United States is.

What is conservative or liberal is a question, I realize. I consider myself to be a person who tries to see all sides and tends to be moderate - liberal on some issues and conservative on others. 

In general the United States does accommodate more diversity and has more prosperity.  That said, the United States has not experienced World War I or World War II on it's own turf and is not struggling to maintain a national identity. 

Back in the day, I used to overhear American who considered themselves to be Patriots, respond to destructive people, by saying "They should go back where they came from" or "If they hate America so much, why don't they leave - find some other country that will take them?" 

That is easier said than done.  Most people don't have so much mobility.  And no country wants incoming criminals.

How can you peaceably speak up for yourself, your people, and help guide your country the right way, if you aren't running for political office yourself?

VOTING is something that so many people neglect to do.  This year we celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the right to vote for women in the United States.  It was fought for and yet so many people don't bother. The turn out for some elections is a bad joke.  This is a basic right, a basic way of making your needs and opinions heard.  It takes some research and some thinking to decide who to vote for if you do not wish to be dictated to by a political party preference.  As you know if you read this blog, I was/am a Bernie Sanders fan. He left the campaign and Joe Biden is the default Democratic candidate. It's my guess that he will chose a woman as his running mate and I suspect she will be Kamala Harris of California. It would be the politically-correct thing to do, although I hope Biden will make his choice based on a person's ability first.

For those of you interested in African American (Black) voting rights in the United States, here is a good history link: 15th AMENDMENT - AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTING RIGHTS

WILD CARPATHIA SERIES - CHARLIE OTTLEY - FASCINATING

Here's the first in the series. Found this so fascinating. Bears - Wolves - Medieval settlements - and covering an expanse as large as Great Britain.

If you like it, you can find the rest of the series on YouTube (until I get around to posting it all!)

I MEET A HUNGARIAN- AMERICAN NEIGHBOR FOR THE FIRST TIME : HE CAN COMMUNICATE WITH FINNISH PEOPLE and HIS CHINESE GIRLFRIEND!

Oh the MYSTERIOUSNESS of being HUNGARIAN!  And Hungarians themselves are into the mystery of our origins and reading all around the human genome and DNA about now.

Last week, walking my dog, I happened to meet a neighbor I didn't know about who is a Hungarian-American of recent vintage.  What an interesting and enthusiastic young person!

Of course, he mentioned that his people were now calling themselves Germans and Slovaks as well, because of well - the way the countries borders changed.  But his first language is Hungarian, and I must stay his English is excellent, just enough accent to know that.  He lives with his CHINESE girlfriend.

We talked for quite a long time.  Enough that my dog lay down without being told to.  (She knows that "mom is going to have a long conversation!")

I told him at the start of the conversation that I do genealogy research, that I don't speak Hungarian, but that I translate with the help of dictionaries and by asking other people who do speak it when I get stuck.  I told him that I was convinced it was an Asian language, because by putting words in front or back or a root, you change the word - the imagery - that Hungarian is a poetical and humorous language. 

I told him that sometimes when I translate place names, for instance, I'm reminded of the translations one gets in certain Chinese restaurants.  For instance, one place, which is on a plateau with a lot of pine trees around seemed to be named "Black Hat."  (One Chinese soup that has something for everyone to pick out of it is called "Happy Family.")

"I can understand Finnish people!  I can understand things my girlfriend says and she's Chinese, because of that placement," he said.  "We're MONGOLIANS!"

To finesse this a bit, there is evidence that while the LANGUAGE, which is not from the Latin, and not from the Slavs, probably came from an ancient starter population that dominated life at some point, and there is evidence that the Mongolians DNA is in, not only some Hungarians, but in a swath of countries, including southern Poland, parts of Germany, and so on,  it may be a case of the DNA being diverse and the language being what prevailed even if the original native speakers' DNA became minority DNA.

I look into this every few months, because I know that DNA and the human genome science is getting more and more specific and interesting all the time.

I look forward to another conversation in the moment with Ferenz!

AZERBAIJAN, LUXEMBOURG, SLOVENIA, NETHERLANDS, RUSSIA, SWEDEN, POLAND, LATVIA, MALAYSIA, IRAN : WELCOME TO MAGYAR-AMERICAN

Just checking, as I do, once in a while, to see where my readership is coming from, and I am surprised and delighted to know that there are people in countries other than the United States, Canada, Australia, and Hungary and the old Austrian Empire, who are checking in.

Welcome, and I wish you all happiness at this time and in the New Year.

RUSSIA : GERMANY : TURKEY : THE CZECH REPUBLIC : POLAND : READ MAGYAR-AMERICAN : ETHNICITY and 9/11 CELEBRATION

Thank You to new readers for stopping by my blog from these countries!

You know, my blog is about the Hungarian American experience and connection to the motherland of Hungary. But as we all know, due to war and politics, borders in these countries have been redefined many times as have the names of cities and towns which sometimes have three or four different language variations. "Ethnic" populations of Hungarians are in all these countries as are people of various "Ethnic" populations living within the borders of Hungary.

And in the United States people of Hungarian family origins are everywhere, though there are concentrations of Magyar-Americans in places where people who came during the industrial revolution resided.

There's a challenge because just about everyone is proud of (or at least not ashamed) of their ethnicity. WE CAN BE PROUDEST OF HAVING MUTUAL RESPECT for our similarities as well as our differences. I believe in the United States intermarriage has, one relationship at a time, made a big difference in how we think about what makes an American. There is a lot of diversity here. I have one friend who counts 6 different ethnicities in her blood; Irish, Polish, Croation, Hungarian, Slovak, German; in the United States we suspect that everyone has a "wee bit" Irish.

On Sunday I attended one of the many small community 9/11 memorial services in a big city. There were beautifully singing young girls, a bag pipe player, a violinist, and representatives from five different religions from Jewish and Moslem, to Catholic and Christian to New Age speaking, as well as representatives from the fire department and the police. It wasn't a spectacle but it was well attended. Fire department helicopters flew over in formation, the boy scouts carried flags, and the names of the 83 Californians who died in the terrorist attack were read, while 83 white doves were let out to fly around the park.