BIG NOSE KATE and DOC HOLLIDAY and the AMERICAN WILD WILD WEST : MARY KATHERINE HORONY CUMMIINGS WAS DOC HOLLIDAY'S LONG TIME COMPANION

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Nose_Kate

Mary Katherine Horony Cummings

Most people don't think of Hungarians as integral to American History or having much to do with it until the Industrial Age but there were some ... I don't know how I came across this Wikipedia site, but I found it all very interesting. She was the only woman Doc Holliday had a relationship with... and it's all tied into Wyatt Earp as well as the Gunfight at OK Corral! 

HUNGARIAN NATIONAL MUSEUM : LET'S LOOK AT CURRENT EXHIBITS : A COUNTRY FOR WOMEN VIRTUAL TOUR : WONDERFUL PLACES IN HUNGARY #21

HUNGARIAN NATIONAL MUSEUM - A COUNTRY FOR WOMEN

Excerpt:  However, from an archaeological point of view it is exactly women's graves which are more spectacular, richer and more colorful than those of men.  These women - including saints, queens, women and daughters of noble families, women brought in bondage or whose marriage sealed an alliance, and of course mothers intriguing for their children's prosperity - also played a significant role in the transformation of Europe. 

Click on the label Wonderful-Hungary to bring up all posts on this theme.

FLOWERS IN THE SNOW : TRADITIONAL HUNGARIAN EMBRODERIE

From Tribal tent design to using gold and silver as thread...

Not marriageable until you could prove you knew how to make lace? 

Learn about regional designs .

STAY IN HUNGARY OR COME TO AMERICA? ADVICE YOU SHOULD HEAR

I was looking at some of my older posts. I realized I had posted about the expectations a person might have versus reality when it comes to leaving Hungary for the United States, with the notion of becoming a citizen here.  Here is more.

1) Do everything legally. It's true it will feel like there are many obstacles and will take time, however, in the end you will not fear deportation or other legal issues. We are interested in legal immigrants.  We fear the illegals who are coming into the country as criminals. By checking in with the governmental agencies and following the rules, which includes showing you can be a good citizen, you are proving you are not one of those who hurt our country.

2) Come with lots of money. If you have family, work, or sponsorship in a big, expensive city, that is one thing. If you are coming alone especially I would not advise anyone to go where the cost of living is killing the locals which usually also means there are housing shortages. Smaller cities have more to offer right now. Do your research. There can be dramatic differences in the lifestyle from one city to another or one neighborhood and another. How much? ($20,000 American dollars is probably the amount you need to rent for a year, plus pay your basic necessities.)

3) Connect with the local Hungarian-American social club. Make friends, network, and speak your language. If you do obtain citizenship you will always also be Hungarian also. Although over the generations ethnic identity fades, it will always be your heritage.  And that's a good thing.

4) Speak decent English. I know, so many Hungarian-Americans don't speak Hungarian and it's not fair. In some parts of the United States, speaking Spanish is also very helpful. You probably already have more knowledge of English than a typical American has of Hungarian.

5) Don't come via a promise of marriage to an American. There are many solicitations on the Internet advertising Beautiful Women from countries such as Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, and so on. Think about this: With so many millions of American woman available, what makes a man solicit a woman for marriage from a country far away?  I will tell you that some of these men expect obedience or for the woman to be submissive far more than an American woman would be. You will be very far away from a support system if you want to leave him and he has monopolized you in that case. There are plenty of women here who are traditional enough to want to marry and be stay at home mothers and wives, so that is not the issue that is keeping him from marriage to an American.

Even if you meet an American man who is traveling in Hungary and have a good time with him or spend time with him, be careful, ask a lot of questions, perhaps visit him here and go back before any decision is made. There are good American men and love is love, but there are also, unfortunately men who lie and intend to turn a woman into a prostitute or sex traffic her. There are gangs and organized crime organizations that do this. So - I cannot express enough that you must have connections with people here, through family, school, work.

6) Consider becoming educated here. Although there are many famous and expensive universities and colleges, there are many state run colleges and lower cost community colleges. Ask about out of country and out of state fees as well as scholarships. However, do not believe it if a school claims that after you graduate they will place you in employment. Your student Visa may run out, so consider also if your American educational credits will transfer to other schools in Hungary or Europe.

7) Once here, say hello to your Hungarian Consulate. Don't wait for a bad situation.  Let them know you are here and they may be able to help.

C 2023 Magyar-American BlogSpot

HUNGARIAN WOMEN on GENEALOGY RECORDS : GENEALOGY TIPS

In September of 2014 I posted a series of Genealogy Tips focused on the special considerations researching Hungarian women of our heritage. In an effort to make all the genealogy tip series I've written for this blog, I've given each a unique label as well as icon.

The label, which you can click to bring up the series, is GenTips - Hungary Women

The series also uses the icon to the left which comes from Wikimedia . The image was scanned by Szilas from the book Erdely Tortenet (History of Transylvania) which was held in the National Szehenyi Library and is identified as being an Hungarian noble of Transylvania.

(Costume Bilder aus Siebenbürgen)

You must go to the original image to determine if you can use it for your purposes, as it may depend on what country you're using it in. 

2014-2025 Magyar American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights.

HUNGARIAN WOMAN ARE BLUNT IN THEIR ASSESSMENT OF RELATIONSHIP : HUNGARIAN STEREOTYPES

 

Here goes another stereotype of Hungarian WOMEN...  If you're a Hungarian woman (and this may carry over to you Hungarian-Americans) you waste no words in telling your partner what you do or do not like about the relationship.

Despite this bluntness, you still expect a man to simply know or remember what it is you like or want!  When he does you are satisfied with him. Therefore, if he is not used to this bluntness, even if you are sure to list the good things first  - and more of them - he will fear what it is you have to tell him.  It's implied that once he knows what you don't like he will improve.

What you think of sex with him, for instance.

Hey, at least you spoke up.

This is very modern.

It has nothing to do with how your great-grandmom, grandmom, or mom dealt with men.

Does she also enjoy you being so blunt with her?

Are you kidding?

C 2019 Magyar-American BlogSpot

HUNGARIAN URBARIUM 1767 : RELIGIOUS PRIESTS and NUNS in 1767 - FEW LANDOWNERS and OFF TO THE CONVENT : GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 8

HUNGARIAN URBARIUM 1767 : RELIGIOUS PRIESTS and NUNS in 1767 - FEW LANDOWNERS and OFF TO THE CONVENT : GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 8

So many CONVENTS, MONASTERIES, SEMINARIES, and ESTATES OWNED BY DIOCESE and HOLY ORDERS are evident on the 1767 URBARIUM -  HUNGARIAN LANDHOLDER CENSUS. 

The Jesuits, the Paulines, the Benedictines...

Let me start with some Hungarian words translated so you'll be aware of what you're reading. I'm going to list these as a progression so you can see how the word meanings go. Sorry I don't have the keyboard to put in the pronunciation marks.

TELEK - property (Usually means equipment such as farm equipment rather than a house or estate.)

CSALAD - family home or stead. (On census csalad may imply a residence that is owned rather than rented or is considered the family stead.)

SZELLER - cottar (implies rented building such as a tradesman's workshop or store. Note that I recently learned that cottar indicates a house on a small plot of land only big enough for a family's own vegetable and herb garden. Consider profession of person who lives there as may tradespeople lived and worked in the same dwelling.)

HELY - place (geographic such as on map)

OHAZA - old country - home country
HAZA - house or home - HAZY - "house of" as in Eszterhazy "house of Eszter"
EGYHAZ - church
EGYHAZI - old church
EGYHAZATYA - church father
EGYHAZATYAK - church fathers
FOLD - land
EGYHAZI FOLDEK - church lands
EGYHAZI ANYAKONYV - church register (births, marriages, deaths)

TEMPLOM - church but best to think of this word used to say a spiritual worship place of any religion including Jewish or Muslim.

KOLOSTOR - monastery

TEMETKEZESI - burial place or grave

KAPOLNA - chapel (sometimes indicates place for Baptism)
KAPTALAN - charter house (indicates place to pay taxes or make payments.)

APATSAG - abbey
KONVENT - convent

BENCES - Benedictine
BENCESREND - Benedictine Holy Order  (Also called "Black Monks")
BENCESAPACA - Benedictine Nun

PAP - Priest

APACA - Nun

PALOS PAPOK - Pauline Priests (plural)

PALOS APACA - Pauline nun

PALOS KONVENT - convent of the Pauline Holy Order

GROF - Count (GR is abbreviation)
GROFNE - Countess or Wife of the Count
BARO - Baron (BR is abbreviation)
BARANO - Baroness or Wife of Baron
BAROKISASSZONY - Unmarried daughter of a Baron
EMBER - person
FONTOS EMBER - important person

SZENT - Saint

... So I want to write a bit about GOTHIC FICTION which I took a class on in college..  GOTHIC FICTION began with the REFORMATION.  Novels featuring lusty and bloodthirsty sinning monastics, priests, and nuns were popular. These fictional characters had sex, got pregnant, murdered people, were sadistic or mean.

You could say that these novels were media and they were a lot like FAKE NEWS today, in the case of GOTHIC FICTION intended to promote Protestantism. We know about them because so many were printed (the printing press having been invented and used primarily for printing Bibles) that some of these novels still exist in archives!  Were they based on true stories?  It's always possible some were but we don't really know for sure. Today GOTHIC FICTION is written by authors such as Anne Rice, who wrote pornography featuring castles and nobles and virgins and horses under a different name... but who is better known for her VAMPIRE novels, such as "Interview With A Vampire," which was made into a film. (In her book "Interview With A Vampire"  her characters search the world for others like them and stop in Central Europe where they are surprised to learn that People Actually Believe They Exist.) To be literary about her work, Rice is writing about Power being played out, about people who when told to jump say, "How high?" Rice has been known to have a personal struggle with Catholicism.

Women in the the mid-late18th century, when the Urbarium of 176,7 took place were present in religious contexts. We see that there are many places in the counties where there are parishes, churches, temples, retreat houses - and islands!, monasteries, schools, and convents. Most women had two choices, to be a wife and mother or dedicate her life to God or Jesus in a Holy Order. But convents were more like old YMCA with its inexpensive rooms for women who wanted to get way and go somewhere to grieve their widowhood, preserve their virginity until a marriage contract could be discussed, or hide away to heal a heart break and preserve or renew their reputation. 

Some convents were boarding schools, and some took in orphaned girls. (When the fashion designer CoCo Channel was a girl in France and their mother died, her father took her and her sister to a convent and then deserted them there.) So you see, there was much to learn besides prayers and needlepoint at the convent. Wealthy and noble women were often taught to read and do the math they would need to run large estates at the convent while their husbands went visiting their fellows or off to politics or battles. And on the Urbarium 1767 you will see quite a few women who were countesses or baronesses who were widowed.

We can assume these women were running the estates they inherited, at least temporarily, until a son came of age, the estate was lost in debt, or they remarried. 

YOU WILL ALSO SEE A FEW UNMARRIED DAUGHTERS OF COUNTS WHO HAD LAND OF THEIR OWN.  A WOMAN WITH LAND WAS A WOMAN WITH A DOWRY, a desirable marital partner.

To get to all the posts/genealogy tips regarding the NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF HUNGARY/ Hungaricana's URBARIUM 1767 you can search this BLOG by looking through my archives, through searching for the word URBARIUM using the Google Search Feature embedded in the blog, or by clicking on the link at the bottom of the post.

C 2017-2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

Addition of words and editing for clarity February 2025

This post is part of a series. To print up all posts, click on the tag Gen Tips: 1767 Hungaricana Urbarium

WE'RE EITHER FREEZING COLD OR HOT HOT HOT! HUNGARIAN HUNGARIAN- AMERICAN WOMEN STEREOTYPE

 

Another unfortunate stereotype of Hungarians, women that is, is that we either run freezing cold (this can include wives who were thinking of becoming nuns before they were abducted into marriage) or that we are hot hot hot!  As for the modest wives, you have a choice.  You can either believe that they do not know how it is they have seven children, or you can believe that they are only modest in the kitchen, which by the way is the cleanest kitchen you will ever eat off the floor in.

If a Hungarian- American woman is considered "good in bed" her lover will say something like "It's that hot Hungarian blood!"  This can be even if you are four generations from Hungary or are now in the "Heinz 57" category of ethnic mix!  Yes, blame it all on Hungary!   Foxy Hungarian women are all over the internet looking to be brides to lonely American men.  They are in the hot hot hot category.

Considering that not so long ago in Hungary most young couples had to wait till marriage to have sex (18 years old for the young women and 20 or 21 for the young men), that it is a very Catholic - Christian country, and so many of our ancestors lived in with relatives until they could get a house (or hut) of their own and no one was supposed to hear anyone having sex, there has been a remarkable cultural change apparently. 

Now, American tourists are braced to see hot hot hot couples everywhere, especially in mineral springs.

I actually think this stereotype may be true! 

C 2014  Magyar-American BlogSpot

HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS : THE ILLEGITIMATE and THE ORPHAN : GENEALOGY TIP #3

HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS : THE ILLEGITIMATE and THE ORPHAN : GENEALOGY TIP #3

Illegitimate births did happen in the Old World, though I'm sure that there was much more taboo associated with it and so there was much more pressure to marry first than there is today in the USA where a huge number of children are born "without fathers" which is to say "without husbands."  To be unmarried was to be unsupported financially for there were no social services, welfare money, Social Security, or other programs.  It was a terrible risk.

We can never know how many children of married women were the result of affairs from birth and baptismal records, though I do wonder about the role of DNA since people are using DNA now to meet relatives who they may not also be able to document if they are the offspring of an affair.

In 300 years of Catholic Church records for one small town I found one listing for a woman who had several illegitimate children. Her children were baptized.  Was that about tolerance, understanding, how devout she was, or a priest who really wanted to save souls?

I had to wonder about this woman.  I wondered if she worked for a seductive noble.  I wondered if she was a person of low intelligence.  How it was that she seemed to be stranded and alone in this town without family?  Maybe she was unusually independent.  Had she been an orphan?  As her children died one after another testifying to illness and poverty I knew that she had to be living on handouts or begging.  And then, when she was in her late 30's an older man married her.  Did he love her?  Was he the father of the children after all?  Or did he think of having a wife as having a necessary servant?

I also read the Jewish record for the closest temple and found many more listings of illegitimate births but that is only a sampling, not meaning that among Jewish women there was overall more illegitimacy.  In these cases it was noted that the women had come from somewhere else meaning that the way pregnant unmarried women were handling their situation was to go away somewhere else to have their baby.

What being born outside marriage means in looking at old Hungarian records is that if your ancestor is the descendent of a woman who gave birth unmarried as Maria Szabo, be they male or female, even if she marries, they will be listed as Szabos on records.  (So far I've found nothing close to a legal adoption recorded in a church record.  I have found children who were orphaned and living with a family with a different surname in which there are notations of the child's birth name and priests notations such as "also known as Huber" which might mean they were born a Huber or simply that the family has more than one name.)

As someone who has an ancestor who was orphaned, I may have some interesting information to share.

Today an orphan means a child LOST BOTH PARENTS.  In the 19th century in Europe and in the deeper past a CHILD WAS AN ORPHAN BECAUSE HE OR SHE LOST THEIR FATHER, the bread winner.  In the case of my orphan ancestor people said she had been "double orphaned."  It turned out that her first natural father died, her mother remarried and then died, leaving a step father who then died.  I think they meant she lost two FATHERS.  I found she and half and step siblings with three different surnames...  Their surnames were their own birth names from various couplings due to deaths and remarriages.

To bring up other posts from this series click on the label TipsPro Tips-Hungary Women

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HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS : RELIGION AND STATUS : GENEALOGY TIP #2

HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS: RELIGION AND STATUS : GENEALOGY TIP #2

In 1711 churches in the countries and counties ruled by the Austrians by law began taking notes like these below. The listings are often in LATIN the universal language of the Roman Catholic Church.  The notes may also be in German, Slovak, Hungarian, Polish - Russian, reflecting the education and ethnicity of the local priest. 

You may find some churches have listings for people who are not Roman Catholic included depending on how small a town or how far it was that people had to travel to go to their Jewish temple or Greek Catholic church.  This was the closest thing they had to a civil registration and be careful when reading their religious information to realize that they are listed not because they actually go to this church but because they live near it! But since Hungary declared itself to be a Christian country after overcoming the domination by Moslem Turks and aligned itself with Roman Catholicism, I'll start there.

CONSIDER THESE SAMPLE LISTINGS.

Maria, daughter of Janos Nagy.  1715  (no mother's name at all.  A fairly worthless listing because of the common names.  Maybe if the person is a noble and has a name like Maria Elizabeta Julietta Szalia (I'm making this up but I've noticed that the more names given the higher the rank of the noble with an average of four names for say the equivalent of a count/graf) the record becomes valuable.

better is:

Maria, daughter of Janos Nagy, Baptised August 1, 1715 (But it's as if the man gave birth!)

better is

Maria, daughter of Janos Nagy, Born July 28, 1715, Baptised August 1, 1715
priest's note : father is farmer.

better is

Maria, daughter of Janos Nagy, Born July 28th, 1715 Baptised August 1, 1725
priest's note : father is farmer.  Mother Maria Toth.  Mother is nobilis.

(You may be convinced that nobilis could only marry nobilis but I've found MANY marriages of mixed status and even mixed religions particularly in towns. As I understand it, the children's status was dictated by their father.  So a noble woman would keep her own status marrying a common person but the issue was that her children lost their noble heritage because of this unequal marriage.  On the other hand some noble women preferred to marry a wealthy commoner rather than a poor noble!  Also today we tend to think that a couple marries in the BRIDE'S church but I've come to believe by reading)

NOW YOU CAN LOOK THROUGH THE CHURCH REGISTER FOR OTHER CHILDREN BORN TO A JANOS NAGY AND A MARIA TOTH, assembling a family group.

NOW YOU CAN ALSO LOOK FOR A MARRIAGE OF THIS COUPLE, based on the oldest child born to them (give it a year or two.)  You may find something like this:

Marriage of the widow Janos Nagy, 45 and the virgin Maria Toth,  18, April 15, 1720.  Husband is a farmer - land owner.

Maria, daughter of Janos Nagy and Maria Nagyne, still born.  December 22, 1721. Baptised by midwife.

Maria, daughter of farmer - landowner Janos Nagy and the nobilis Maria Toth,  Born July 28th, 1715, Baptised August 1, 1725 by Priest Andras Szabo.  (It is common for a couple to name a newly born child the same as a deceased child!)

Janos, son of farmer - landowner from Zemplen, Janos Nagy and the nobilis Maria Toth who was born in Budapest,  Janos Born August 15, 1726, Baptised August 16, 1726 ...

I would like to say that all the records get more informative as they years go by but that hasn't been my experience. 

Priest's notations about status are common even after 1848 and there always seems to be great concern about the father's profession, after all most women didn't work for money.  They were either supported or inherited or became sisters or nuns supported in convents by the Church.

Posts from this series can be brought up by clicking on the label GenTips - Hungary Women

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HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS : THE MAIDEN NAME IS A NAME FOR LIFE : GENEALOGY TIP #1

HUNGARIAN WOMEN : SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS : THE MAIDEN NAME IS A NAME FOR LIFE  : GENEALOGY PRO TIP #1

GENEALOGY has really reinforced my feminism.  I've seen how women's lives were before there was contraception as an alternative to dying young, worn out from continual pregnancies, or in childbirth itself as a real danger.  I've seen how many children were orphaned in the 19th century. I've seen how few records there are of women's lives compared to men's.  I've seen how men are prioritized historically. 

But before I go too far on a rant about that, I would like to tell you that there is something very unique about HUNGARIAN WOMEN when it comes to documents.

As you know in the Hungarian language the surname comes first and then the given name.  To me there is something very Asian about the language and that.  But did you know that in previous centuries Hungarian women went through their lives traditionally being known by their maiden name?  From birth through marriage and death their maiden name is recorded in church registers and other documents.

Hungarian women are listed in relationship to men surely.  But say a woman was born Maria Toth and she marries Janos Nagy.  She may be listed as Maria Toth, wife of Janos Nagy or Maria Nagyne. The ne ending denotes possession by a man, in this case Janos Nagy.  It stands to reason that these women thought of themselves as their maiden name at immigration to the U.S,. and so,  when you're looking at ship records and manifests such as the ones offered by the Ellis Island and Castle Rock sites, look for the woman under her maiden name even if she was married at the time, as well as her married name.

You may find a listing such as Maria Toth,  M (married), and in the notes notice that she is going to her husband who has a different surname like Janos Nagy.  The indexing that leads you to these records presently only records the name of the ship passenger, the name on their ticket.  Always keep note of the place she left and the place she is going to and what the relationship is supposed to be.  Then go to that American address on the census next!  You may find that some of your other ancestors are all living together at that location.

One woman I found on a ship manifest coming back from a trip to Hungary was held at Ellis Island for questioning because she said she was a naturalized citizen already but was traveling alone.  In this case the woman gave her married name American style.  I have no idea how she proved that she had been naturalized with a husband who wasn't traveling with her when she couldn't read, write, or speak English, and she clearly had no papers to document this, but I have a feeling her husband probably had to leave Trenton New Jersey, take the train to New York, and go get her!

Posts from this series can be brought up by clicking on the label GenTips - Hungary Women

2014-2025 Magyar American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights.

HUNGARIAN WOMEN in GENEALOGY RECORDS - A GENEALOGY PRO TIP SERIES HERE AT MAGYAR AMERICAN BLOGSPOT

I've given this series of Genealogy tips the label GenTips - Hungary Women

In order to better organize all my Genealogy Tips for Hungarian - and Hungarian-American researchers I've given each series a label and also chosen a picture icon, if you prefer to scan through the blog.

On my sidebar there are numerous helpful links as well.

My exploration of Hungary and Hungarian culture and society continues here at MAGYAR-AMERICAN, from looking at stereotypes to modern day politics, as well as a little bit about me. 

There are links to Hungarian and Hungarian-American clubs too.

Welcome to my blog!

2014-2025 Magyar American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights.

THE THIN SEXY HOT HUNGARIAN WOMEN ALL GET FAT AS SOON AS THEY GET MARRIED! STEREOTYPE OF HUNGARIANS

Is it true?! I've even heard this from American tourtists.

You see, we Hungarian and Hungarian-American WOMEN are so MAGICAL, that we are sexy, thin, and hot before we get married. Then POOOOF! we suddenly blow up and are fat matrons. There is no slow way to fat. We cook and cook and cook, to make our husbands happy. Then stay thin and we go POOOOF!   

Please, will some sexy, thin and hot MARRIED women tell me this stereotype is not true!

C 2011 Magyar-American BlogSpot