STAY IN HUNGARY OR COME TO AMERICA? ADVICE YOU SHOULD HEAR

I was looking at some of my older posts. I realized I had posted about the expectations a person might have versus reality when it comes to leaving Hungary for the United States, with the notion of becoming a citizen here.  Here is more.

1) Do everything legally. It's true it will feel like there are many obstacles and will take time, however, in the end you will not fear deportation or other legal issues. We are interested in legal immigrants.  We fear the illegals who are coming into the country as criminals. By checking in with the governmental agencies and following the rules, which includes showing you can be a good citizen, you are proving you are not one of those who hurt our country.

2) Come with lots of money. If you have family, work, or sponsorship in a big, expensive city, that is one thing. If you are coming alone especially I would not advise anyone to go where the cost of living is killing the locals which usually also means there are housing shortages. Smaller cities have more to offer right now. Do your research. There can be dramatic differences in the lifestyle from one city to another or one neighborhood and another. How much? ($20,000 American dollars is probably the amount you need to rent for a year, plus pay your basic necessities.)

3) Connect with the local Hungarian-American social club. Make friends, network, and speak your language. If you do obtain citizenship you will always also be Hungarian also. Although over the generations ethnic identity fades, it will always be your heritage.  And that's a good thing.

4) Speak decent English. I know, so many Hungarian-Americans don't speak Hungarian and it's not fair. In some parts of the United States, speaking Spanish is also very helpful. You probably already have more knowledge of English than a typical American has of Hungarian.

5) Don't come via a promise of marriage to an American. There are many solicitations on the Internet advertising Beautiful Women from countries such as Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, and so on. Think about this: With so many millions of American woman available, what makes a man solicit a woman for marriage from a country far away?  I will tell you that some of these men expect obedience or for the woman to be submissive far more than an American woman would be. You will be very far away from a support system if you want to leave him and he has monopolized you in that case. There are plenty of women here who are traditional enough to want to marry and be stay at home mothers and wives, so that is not the issue that is keeping him from marriage to an American.

Even if you meet an American man who is traveling in Hungary and have a good time with him or spend time with him, be careful, ask a lot of questions, perhaps visit him here and go back before any decision is made. There are good American men and love is love, but there are also, unfortunately men who lie and intend to turn a woman into a prostitute or sex traffic her. There are gangs and organized crime organizations that do this. So - I cannot express enough that you must have connections with people here, through family, school, work.

6) Consider becoming educated here. Although there are many famous and expensive universities and colleges, there are many state run colleges and lower cost community colleges. Ask about out of country and out of state fees as well as scholarships. However, do not believe it if a school claims that after you graduate they will place you in employment. Your student Visa may run out, so consider also if your American educational credits will transfer to other schools in Hungary or Europe.

7) Once here, say hello to your Hungarian Consulate. Don't wait for a bad situation.  Let them know you are here and they may be able to help.

C 2023 Magyar-American BlogSpot

GENEALOGY QUESTION : HOW DO YOU FIND OUT WHAT VILLAGE YOUR HUNGARIAN ANCESTORS CAME FROM WHEN EVERTHING JUST SAYS "HUNGARY" ?

This question was posed to me by someone, a third generation Hungarian American, who I met through a rare interaction that began through e-mail. The person started her genealogy but hit into the brick wall of not finding documents that might state the village.  She checked death certificates and census records.

What I find is that usually a brick wall is about not knowing what all resources there are and checking all of them.

Therefore I think a thorough search of ship manifests /immigration is usually a good step for anyone who came over on a ship, and since their destination was New Jersey, I suggest New York, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. If many people with the same names may come up - save them all.  Knowing when someone was married or for how long - say from Census or other information can help you narrow your search - since on the ship manifest it will say they are married or single.  You might also find recognizable family groups.

The ship manifests will often report the answer to Where Did You Leave?  and Where Are You Going?  Where did you leave is not always the place they were born or even lived for years.  It could be a relatives, a friends, or even a place near the docks where they went to work first to pay for the ticket. However, my experience is that most often it is a home village or not far from it. Think about what you would do if you were going to go to another country? Maybe you would give up your house and move in and visit with relatives before leaving. This is where the address of WHERE THEY ARE GOING and the Census might match up. Because you may recognize the address from prior knowledge or because of the census.  

So if you KNOW where they lived soon after immigration, and the ship record matches up - - and it says they left, say, Szeged there you go!

Another possibility is the World War I Draft Registration. Sometimes World War II Draft Registration or Enlistment or Military Records.  Addresses given can be cross checked with census.

Funeral Home Records /Cemetery Burial Records/ and Death Certificates usually lean on each other but sometimes one of these will have more information than another.  (I'm no longer surprised that so many children seemed to have never known their mother's maiden name!)

Church records - Catholic Archive records of marriages, baptismal, and other sacraments are sometimes helpful to the cause but are good to have in any case.  So don't just depend on Civil Records also called Vital records.  Say your immigrant got married soon after immigration here in America - names of parents could be on that record.

So once you have the names of parents, you can use FamilySearch to go into Hungarian church records looking for couples with those names.  Again, we are looking for a match up such as birth dates and with common names there are going to be many possibilities.  

Try this research first.

Some areas of Hungary are far more challenging or sometimes impossible than others because of records that are missing.  Also what would be county or city archives may have information that is special to their collection and not duplicated.

The HUNGARIAN NATIONAL ARCHIVES is adding more information all the time and I believe has more than FamilySearch or Ancestry at this point and intends to keep adding.  You may need to ask a relative to translate or hire someone to do that.

NATIONAL ARVCHIVES HUNGARY ENGLISH

C 2021 Magyar American BlogSpot

Genealogy Block #1

COLUMBUS DAY AFTERTHOUGHTS and THE REFUGEES INCOMING TO HUNGARY and ALL OF EUROPE

Yesterday was a holiday called COLUMBUS Day here in the United States.  It meant that most government offices and schools were closed in honor of the DISCOVERER OF AMERICA.  (I should say THE Americas as he didn't actually land on North America or what would become the United States.)  COLUMBUS DAY IS A TRADITION.

To be honest, a lot of people are just grateful to have a day off, maybe just to go shopping for all the sales that feature early winter clothing.  No one wants that holiday removed from the calendar if it could mean loosing that day off.  (We really do not have much off time here in the States.)  I went out shopping for several hours, something I loath to do, but my neighbor enticed me with a big coupon she had for more savings from the local Macy's.  I barely thought about the discoverer of America or any of the issues now connected to him as I walked the mall and tried on lots of shirts.

As a child the adventures of Columbus, his sailors, and the ships the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria, certainly captured our imaginations in school.  How could they have sailed all the way across the ocean in those small rickety ships thinking there were sea monsters at the edge of the world?

I recall that classrooms were decorated on the theme, and that we did art drawings and projects that focused on this adventurer and discoverer.  We tried to imagine what the Native Americans that he and his sailors encounters thought when they saw those ships and saw people who were very light in complexion.  (Our teachers figured we were too young to understand venereal disease.)

These days some of the Native American tribes are particularly upset about the dedication of a day to the man. These days there is speculation that Christopher Columbus was NOT the first European to sail and land on a beach in the New World - America - a CONTINENT  that was either totally unknown or long forgotten.  For a very long time there was no opposition, speculation, or CONSPIRACY THEORIES attached to Columbus and his discovery of America, a voyage that was financed by Queen Isabella of Spain, and about the time that Jews were being converted or expelled from that country.  It was simply a day to be enjoyed.

So maybe it's true that Queen Isabella financed the trip, not for the greed of gold, but actually thought that Columbus could find some place for the Jews to go live?

The expulsion of Jews from various European countries over time is history.  It was thought that all the citizens of a country should be unified in the same religion, the same values and way of life and that it would bring unity.

And I've been reading around Hungary's position as a Christian  (Roman Catholic mostly) country that does not want to take in thousands of fleeing refugees from war torn Syria or anywhere else particularity Moslem.  I was thinking about how countries often have an OFFICIAL RELIGION but here in the United States at the founding of our country it was decided that religious freedom was key.  So recently there have been some statues of Satan popping up in this nation.

Although I understand that people who flee their countries are desperate, leaving everything behind, and risking their lives, and that many of these people end up dead because the boats they paid to get on sink or there is a stampede or illness, I frankly also understand that sometimes a country has to look at it's budget and it's own citizens who are living in poverty, and for Hungary that often means the Rom (gypsies), and admit to itself that it cannot afford to help. 

I'm not picking on Hungary here.  Hungary can fit in our state called "Indiana," but I actually think that until the United States houses all it's own homeless it should stop being parental to the world.

I look at it from a one person standpoint.  I have friends who I like and care about who are in need and maybe I can invite one of them over for dinner once in a while, and I can afford to share food, but I'm not able to pay their rent.

Hungary is also concerned about Moslems because of a history of being occupied by the Moslem Turks for a substantial amount of time, that Christianity and Christian values will be threatened by too many of these refugees.  It may be unpopular to say, but I can understand these fears, especially when it comes to the value, attitudes towards, and treatment of women.

The United States is thought of as a Satan country by Moslem terrorists.  That's why we had 9/11 et el.  A family of Moslems lives down the street peacefully and no one seems to think badly of them just on that basis, but as they are surrounded by people with Western Ways, they must tolerate knowing that their neighbors include people who have sex without being married, women with educations who work at jobs full time and don't have families, and so on.

Germany has taken thousands of refugees willingly.  Germany's economy can afford more.  But as I read around the subject, hours of reading, I found ONE EXCELLENT QUESTION that we should all be asking which is  WHY ARE THE WEALTHY MOSLEM DOMINATED COUNTRIES NOT TAKING THESE REFUGEES? 

Why are they running all the way to Europe?  Is it the reputation of these countries?  Is it that they perceive that the Western World is overall wealthy?  How many of them wish to make major changes in their point of view and lifestyle to fit in, contribute, and cooperate?

Let me make this personal once more.  One of my friends in need has eaten a dozen times at my table this year, and if I could not afford it I wouldn't invite him so no I don't feel used, and on occasion he brings a loaf of bread or a bottle of wine or some other contribution, but has never offered to wash a dish.  Compare him to the friend who is also in need, also eats, sometimes contributes,  but who always offers.

All for Now!


C  2015  Magyar American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

HUNGARIAN YOUTH LEAVING THE COUNTRY - SHOULD YOU STAY OR LEAVE? SOME ADVICE and THINGS TO CONSIDER before COMING TO THE UNITED STATES!

Since I'm descended from Hungarians who did leave Hungary in the 19th Century, how can I advise anyone to STAY in Hungary when they may rightly perceive that life in another country could be better for them?

I will try.

Just the other day I overheard two young people from Czechoslovakia talking in Czech on a park bench.  A couple months ago I met young people here from the Ukraine.  They all look so healthy and blond, but I dare not ask them HOW THEY CAN AFFORD THE RENT!  It's been a while since I met young recent Hungarian immigrants.   But in each case, I first ask them "Are you here as a tourist or are you here to stay?"  Often they laugh or say they don't know and I suspect they came as tourists and are now trying to figure things out.

THAT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO!  A lot can go wrong, so at least PLAN AHEAD!

The world is an extremely different place than it was prior to the World Wars, and air travel and electronic communications mean that IF YOU LEAVE HUNGARY you may not be cut off from those who remain behind as my ancestors were.  That's a positive.  And it may be that visiting friends and family left behind will be as easy as affording a ticket.

Though many Hungarian men came to the United States as seasonal industrial workers and returned to Hungary to do seasonal agricultural work for the family farms before making a DECISION to become American Citizens over a hundred years ago, the process was blocked for years because of the difficult politics of the World War I era.  Hungarians were one of the ethnic groups who had to wait if their process wasn't complete because they were considered foreigners who might be spies.  Some of them waited into the 1920's.

BEFORE YOU CONSIDER LEAVING HUNGARY do extreme research on the rules for entry of the other country you hope to live in, the rules for staying, and what you may be expected to do once you get there, including how much money you should have with you since you may not legally earn any for some time.  As for the United States, life can be very different depending on the region, state, city, or local that you go to.

Consider that Hungary is providing incentives for youth to stay in the country of their birth.

HERE IS MY ADVICE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MAY COME TO THE UNITED STATES - MAYBE EVEN MY STATE OF CALIFORNIA!

These days there seems to be far more opportunity to learn the most useful second language in Europe and that is English.  BE SURE TO HAVE EXCELLENT LANGUAGE SKILLS before you leave and once you are in your country and city of choice, take more lessons from a local to have a good accent.  There are very few Hungarian speakers in California.  You may have to head to the local HUNGARIAN-AMERICAN CLUB to find any!

Although accented English can be charming if a person has a large vocabulary, a heavy accent can still be a barrier for employment unless you are very well educated - say in the sciences - or you have a relative that owns a restaurant.

I've met people who did jobs well beneath their education, like working at a car wash, in order to be employed and earning money at something who did progress after they were speaking well.  (Working at the car wash where I live has become the cash job for Mexicans but not so long ago you could find Israelis doing it.  There's no shame in a days work honestly done.)

CASH JOBS?  It happens all the time in the big cities, and though it's not true that no Americans want these jobs, and it is true that there can be an INS raid and you can find yourself in deep trouble, what is true is that Americans hire recent immigrants for cash because THEY WANT TO PAY LESS THAN THEY WOULD PAY AN AMERICAN.  It may be that you'll find work as a live-in nanny or maid or gardener.  More likely they will expect you to commute to their home and live elsewhere, even in with a half dozen other people in small apartments.

CLOTHING: You can wear sports shoes or casual shoes for everywhere but... Though you may find casual clothing OK for the job you get, for interviewing it's still best to dress like you're going to be the next CEO, suit and tie, serious shoes.  Tattoos?  If your body art can be seen you'll probably be thought of as an artist, musician, or part of a subculture.

SOCIAL LIFE?  MARRYING AN AMERICAN?  Read everything you can about cultural differences, especially if you are unmarried and are interested in meeting and maybe marrying someone from your chosen country.  Perhaps more than business, this is the area of social life that is most perplexing.  It is perplexing for those of us who already live here and is still sometimes called "the battle of the sexes." 

What do women want? 
What do men want?

I would think they want someone to be respectful and loving to them.

BIG CITY YOUTH are EXPERIENCED SEXUALLY and may not think of having a fling with a recent immigrant as anything but sex, not love, and not a relationship.  So if you are in the mood for a fling with an American ALWAYS USE CONTRACEPTION and PROTECTION.  There is a herpes epidemic and HIV/AIDS is still a threat.

Women should know that American men will likely think of you (or anyone from a previously Communist country of Europe) to be "exotic" or expect you to be sexier or more feminine (i.e. more willing to do everything his way) than an American born and raised women.  You may not by nature be this way but will have to speak up for yourself to be known.  It's up to you to protect yourself from predatory men.  They are out there and some of them hate innocence.  The best way to do this is to go out on the town to meet people with a like-minded girlfriend and stay sober and alert.

Men... American women are looking for responsible men who they can count on!
 
Try to make friends before you try to have a lover, but whatever you do, error on the conservative side.   Find yourself out on the town with a wild bunch?  Be careful.  You can get into troubles that they can't because you are not yet a citizen. 

SMOKING AND DRINKING?  You may have to change.  No doubt people still smoke and drink for the companies that sell cigarettes and various alcoholic drinks make a fortune.  Still, there is a huge trend towards healthy living that means that many people no longer imbibe, and it isn't even especially religious but more of a holistic and spiritual way of living and seeing life, including the conservation of Mother Earth.  There are SMOKING BANS in many cities.  You may not smoke on the street or in a restaurant when there is a smoking ban and can even get fined.

COST OF LIVING...  HIGH!  (Are you wealthy?)

An average one bedroom rental is over $1000 a month in Los Angeles, and you may have to have excellent credit and references to get it.  Aim for a two bedroom for $1200 to $1400, a compatible room mate, and an income of at least twice that, three times that is better.

Standard grocery stores are bringing in more and more organic but expensive produce and other items for sale that one used to have to go to a specialty "health food" store to buy.  On a budget it may be impossible to eat the highest quality produce.  Millions of Americans can barely afford to eat at all and use a government benefit to buy groceries.  The least expensive produce is often not surplus but ready to expire.

MEAT EATER?  Most people have cut down on how much meat they eat, especially meat like pork and beef, preferring chicken, turkey, and fish.  Partly this is because meat is becoming unaffordable, with prices going higher and higher because of the drought, partly it is the trend towards vegetarianism or Mediterranean diets.  When you see a fat American, that person is usually fat from sweets, breads, beer - carbohydrates - than overeating good foods!  There is a big emphasis on eating enough vegetables and eating twice as much vegetable than the meat on the plate.

Hungarians eating American hot dogs and versions of sausages may be disappointed and consider them bland and over-processed or drowning in condiments.

There are peppers here, the hot ones mostly in Mexican markets, but there is little zeal for cabbage.  People are eating broccoli and cauliflower more than ever.  For groceries consider that the ARMENIAN OWNED stores do import some Hungarian meats and cheeses as well as the biggest cabbages for the stuffing.

PEOPLE CARRY BOTTLED WATER WITH THEM EVERYWHERE. 

COFFEE and COFFEE HOUSES!  They're everywhere, and there are still people talking to each other in them, even though long rows of people are more attached to their lap tops and cell phones.  Search out the local, privately owned coffee houses and smaller chef or family owned restaurants. As for the coffee itself, there are so very many varieties imported that you can have your choice, but expect to pay about $2.00 on the average for coffee in a paper throw away cup, often more, and it will not be especially thick or dark.  Many people avoid any caffeine except for an early morning wake up cup.

CELL PHONES?  Opt for a PREPAID phone from Metro-PCS.  There are many small companies.  This one has unlimited everything for $40 a month and some fairly inexpensive phones.

CHURCH?  Fewer young Americans are declaring themselves to be affiliated with a church or religious.  Still church can be a good place to start socially so you may want to visit various congregations and see what you think.  Be aware that there are still cults thriving in the United States, that they didn't all end with the 1960's, and some of them are "Christian,"  so if you want to worship rather than become entrapped, stick with the big well known denominations and avoid store fronts, street preachers, and cute girls with flyers inviting you places when you land at the airport.


C 2015  Magyar American BlogSpot.  All Rights Reserved.

USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE TO READ THIS ARTICLE IN HUNGARIAN!

STRANGER THAN PARADISE : JIM JARMUSCH FILM ABOUT ROOTLESS HUNGARIAN IMMIGRANTS

STRANGER THAN PARADISE is a film by Jim Jarmusch with John Lurie, Eszter Balint, Richard Edson.  Came out in 1984, is in black and white, and under liscense from Cinesthesia Productions.

Wanting to be more informed about Hungarian made films, I feel lucky to be able to use a library that actually has a few, but I have to admit that the dreariness of this film was such that I could not go through with watching much more than a half hour of it.

If the film maker wished to convey the dismal, almost useless life of a particular Hungarian immigrant to America, one who refuses to use the language, has adopted American football, eats TV dinners, and is unwelcoming to another Hungarian immigrant, his cousin, he did an excellent job.

Any screenplay or book can be about a particular character rather than a whole experience.  While I know that many Hungarian immigrants had a very hard time adjusting to life in the United States and experienced prejudicial attitudes that held them back, this particular character seems to be a lazy layabout who is expecting more to come to him.  I have to think of if that way because I also know that Hungarian immigrants to America have brought with them an excellent work ethic, talent and skills, and so much else to the "Melting Pot."