Showing posts with label Religious Tolerance. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Religious Tolerance. Show all posts
Thursday, December 25, 2025
Sunday, December 14, 2025
Saturday, May 5, 2018
HUNGARIAN SURNAMES and GIVEN NAMES and JEWISHNESS : GENEALOGY
I was researching a woman noble named Judit Thuranszky de Turik et Komjathna and some other historical persons who are probably linked in some way to this area and who I have reason to think may have been Jewish, at least hundreds of years ago. Perhaps it's that I once spent hundreds of hours reading 200 years plus of one particular Catholic church records of marriages and found one person - a man who was the town pharmacist - who was listed as Jewish. Perhaps it's because I know that in Hungary people who were living on the land of a noble who became Lutheran or Reformed or Evangelical, or some other religion, tended to feel the pressure to follow there - and back during the Counter Reformation. Perhaps it's because that the Moslem Ottoman empire was in place for so long in the territory that is Hungary that basically, I think of Hungary as a place where there has been a lot of religious upheaval. Or that as a genealogist I'm often hearing "Jewish Rumors" that someone's grandparent said that was the family's roots. Or that DNA tests showed this was so. Or that the Hungarians were Nazis or that they were actually more tolerant of having Jewish people in the country. Or was that only along the grape growing and wine trade regions? Maybe even the "Jewish Rumors" that are always around about Princess William of Wales a.k.a Kate Middleton makes me wonder just how many generations of living as Christians does a family have to be to prove otherwise.
When it comes to finding genealogy archival documents, basically from the late 1700's Catholic churches in smaller towns and villages were keeping the records of marriages both "mixed" and of non parishioners because there was no mandate for civil registrations. This was practical because sometimes the priest at the church was one of the few who could read and write and also because so many people lived in wooden structures in villages and on estates but it was only the church or the residences of wealthy people who were made of stone that might better withstand a fire. In the larger cities where there were separate structures for the Reformed church, the Catholic church, and the Jewish Synagogue, records were kept individually - at least after that structure was built. Still, I have frequently checked these even when not expecting someone to be on them, just in case.
In all the records I have read, the name Judit is fairly rare, and to me a "giveaway" that the person in Jewish. So I found an attempt to address this question by someone named Kinga Frojimovics on the JewishGen site. To me her sampling seems limited and this is originally from 2003 but it's probably still worth the read. This article gives the dates for surname adoption.
JEWISH GEN - KINGA FROJIMOVICS - JEWISH NAMING CUSTOMS HUNGARY
As a comparison, when I do American genealogy I sometimes come across families in which "Old Testament" names have been given to the children but I find them going to the Baptist or another church and I don't find them buried in Jewish graveyards. There are many names that are "Old Testament" that have been popular for Americans at different time periods: consider the names Sharon and Deborah for instance. But in Hungary you can encounter naming patterns that are far less about the parents just liking the name, and more about honoring the birth order among the common villagers, or ancestors with nobles being given multiple names at baptisms that seem to be less ordinary.
As for surnames and titles, I think things get more mysterious for us 21st century researchers who are trying to understand how different people lived and thought way back when, as well as make our way through those charters and other manuscripts that mention important families, even when on our knees in thanks when we find one that is very legible and neatly written though in Old Hungarian; to some extent we take the word of the translator.
One article I read said that Turanism was the name given to those who were sure that Hungarians had Asian roots. Well, was this family the Turanszke's especially devoted to that belief? Was this perhaps because they themselves knew that their ancestors came from Asia?
Anyone wishing to give an opinion?
When it comes to finding genealogy archival documents, basically from the late 1700's Catholic churches in smaller towns and villages were keeping the records of marriages both "mixed" and of non parishioners because there was no mandate for civil registrations. This was practical because sometimes the priest at the church was one of the few who could read and write and also because so many people lived in wooden structures in villages and on estates but it was only the church or the residences of wealthy people who were made of stone that might better withstand a fire. In the larger cities where there were separate structures for the Reformed church, the Catholic church, and the Jewish Synagogue, records were kept individually - at least after that structure was built. Still, I have frequently checked these even when not expecting someone to be on them, just in case.
In all the records I have read, the name Judit is fairly rare, and to me a "giveaway" that the person in Jewish. So I found an attempt to address this question by someone named Kinga Frojimovics on the JewishGen site. To me her sampling seems limited and this is originally from 2003 but it's probably still worth the read. This article gives the dates for surname adoption.
JEWISH GEN - KINGA FROJIMOVICS - JEWISH NAMING CUSTOMS HUNGARY
As a comparison, when I do American genealogy I sometimes come across families in which "Old Testament" names have been given to the children but I find them going to the Baptist or another church and I don't find them buried in Jewish graveyards. There are many names that are "Old Testament" that have been popular for Americans at different time periods: consider the names Sharon and Deborah for instance. But in Hungary you can encounter naming patterns that are far less about the parents just liking the name, and more about honoring the birth order among the common villagers, or ancestors with nobles being given multiple names at baptisms that seem to be less ordinary.
As for surnames and titles, I think things get more mysterious for us 21st century researchers who are trying to understand how different people lived and thought way back when, as well as make our way through those charters and other manuscripts that mention important families, even when on our knees in thanks when we find one that is very legible and neatly written though in Old Hungarian; to some extent we take the word of the translator.
One article I read said that Turanism was the name given to those who were sure that Hungarians had Asian roots. Well, was this family the Turanszke's especially devoted to that belief? Was this perhaps because they themselves knew that their ancestors came from Asia?
Anyone wishing to give an opinion?
Tuesday, October 13, 2015
COLUMBUS DAY AFTERTHOUGHTS and THE REFUGEES INCOMING TO HUNGARY and ALL OF EUROPE
Yesterday was a holiday called COLUMBUS Day here in the United States. It meant that most government offices and schools were closed in honor of the DISCOVERER OF AMERICA. (I should say THE Americas as he didn't actually land on North America or what would become the United States.) COLUMBUS DAY IS A TRADITION.
To be honest, a lot of people are just grateful to have a day off, maybe just to go shopping for all the sales that feature early winter clothing. No one wants that holiday removed from the calendar if it could mean loosing that day off. (We really do not have much off time here in the States.) I went out shopping for several hours, something I loath to do, but my neighbor enticed me with a big coupon she had for more savings from the local Macy's. I barely thought about the discoverer of America or any of the issues now connected to him as I walked the mall and tried on lots of shirts.
As a child the adventures of Columbus, his sailors, and the ships the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria, certainly captured our imaginations in school. How could they have sailed all the way across the ocean in those small rickety ships thinking there were sea monsters at the edge of the world?
I recall that classrooms were decorated on the theme, and that we did art drawings and projects that focused on this adventurer and discoverer. We tried to imagine what the Native Americans that he and his sailors encounters thought when they saw those ships and saw people who were very light in complexion. (Our teachers figured we were too young to understand venereal disease.)
These days some of the Native American tribes are particularly upset about the dedication of a day to the man. These days there is speculation that Christopher Columbus was NOT the first European to sail and land on a beach in the New World - America - a CONTINENT that was either totally unknown or long forgotten. For a very long time there was no opposition, speculation, or CONSPIRACY THEORIES attached to Columbus and his discovery of America, a voyage that was financed by Queen Isabella of Spain, and about the time that Jews were being converted or expelled from that country. It was simply a day to be enjoyed.
So maybe it's true that Queen Isabella financed the trip, not for the greed of gold, but actually thought that Columbus could find some place for the Jews to go live?
The expulsion of Jews from various European countries over time is history. It was thought that all the citizens of a country should be unified in the same religion, the same values and way of life and that it would bring unity.
And I've been reading around Hungary's position as a Christian (Roman Catholic mostly) country that does not want to take in thousands of fleeing refugees from war torn Syria or anywhere else particularity Moslem. I was thinking about how countries often have an OFFICIAL RELIGION but here in the United States at the founding of our country it was decided that religious freedom was key. So recently there have been some statues of Satan popping up in this nation.
Although I understand that people who flee their countries are desperate, leaving everything behind, and risking their lives, and that many of these people end up dead because the boats they paid to get on sink or there is a stampede or illness, I frankly also understand that sometimes a country has to look at it's budget and it's own citizens who are living in poverty, and for Hungary that often means the Rom (gypsies), and admit to itself that it cannot afford to help.
I'm not picking on Hungary here. Hungary can fit in our state called "Indiana," but I actually think that until the United States houses all it's own homeless it should stop being parental to the world.
I look at it from a one person standpoint. I have friends who I like and care about who are in need and maybe I can invite one of them over for dinner once in a while, and I can afford to share food, but I'm not able to pay their rent.
Hungary is also concerned about Moslems because of a history of being occupied by the Moslem Turks for a substantial amount of time, that Christianity and Christian values will be threatened by too many of these refugees. It may be unpopular to say, but I can understand these fears, especially when it comes to the value, attitudes towards, and treatment of women.
The United States is thought of as a Satan country by Moslem terrorists. That's why we had 9/11 et el. A family of Moslems lives down the street peacefully and no one seems to think badly of them just on that basis, but as they are surrounded by people with Western Ways, they must tolerate knowing that their neighbors include people who have sex without being married, women with educations who work at jobs full time and don't have families, and so on.
Germany has taken thousands of refugees willingly. Germany's economy can afford more. But as I read around the subject, hours of reading, I found ONE EXCELLENT QUESTION that we should all be asking which is WHY ARE THE WEALTHY MOSLEM DOMINATED COUNTRIES NOT TAKING THESE REFUGEES?
Why are they running all the way to Europe? Is it the reputation of these countries? Is it that they perceive that the Western World is overall wealthy? How many of them wish to make major changes in their point of view and lifestyle to fit in, contribute, and cooperate?
Let me make this personal once more. One of my friends in need has eaten a dozen times at my table this year, and if I could not afford it I wouldn't invite him so no I don't feel used, and on occasion he brings a loaf of bread or a bottle of wine or some other contribution, but has never offered to wash a dish. Compare him to the friend who is also in need, also eats, sometimes contributes, but who always offers.
All for Now!
C 2015 Magyar American BlogSpot All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights
To be honest, a lot of people are just grateful to have a day off, maybe just to go shopping for all the sales that feature early winter clothing. No one wants that holiday removed from the calendar if it could mean loosing that day off. (We really do not have much off time here in the States.) I went out shopping for several hours, something I loath to do, but my neighbor enticed me with a big coupon she had for more savings from the local Macy's. I barely thought about the discoverer of America or any of the issues now connected to him as I walked the mall and tried on lots of shirts.
As a child the adventures of Columbus, his sailors, and the ships the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria, certainly captured our imaginations in school. How could they have sailed all the way across the ocean in those small rickety ships thinking there were sea monsters at the edge of the world?
I recall that classrooms were decorated on the theme, and that we did art drawings and projects that focused on this adventurer and discoverer. We tried to imagine what the Native Americans that he and his sailors encounters thought when they saw those ships and saw people who were very light in complexion. (Our teachers figured we were too young to understand venereal disease.)
These days some of the Native American tribes are particularly upset about the dedication of a day to the man. These days there is speculation that Christopher Columbus was NOT the first European to sail and land on a beach in the New World - America - a CONTINENT that was either totally unknown or long forgotten. For a very long time there was no opposition, speculation, or CONSPIRACY THEORIES attached to Columbus and his discovery of America, a voyage that was financed by Queen Isabella of Spain, and about the time that Jews were being converted or expelled from that country. It was simply a day to be enjoyed.
So maybe it's true that Queen Isabella financed the trip, not for the greed of gold, but actually thought that Columbus could find some place for the Jews to go live?
The expulsion of Jews from various European countries over time is history. It was thought that all the citizens of a country should be unified in the same religion, the same values and way of life and that it would bring unity.
And I've been reading around Hungary's position as a Christian (Roman Catholic mostly) country that does not want to take in thousands of fleeing refugees from war torn Syria or anywhere else particularity Moslem. I was thinking about how countries often have an OFFICIAL RELIGION but here in the United States at the founding of our country it was decided that religious freedom was key. So recently there have been some statues of Satan popping up in this nation.
Although I understand that people who flee their countries are desperate, leaving everything behind, and risking their lives, and that many of these people end up dead because the boats they paid to get on sink or there is a stampede or illness, I frankly also understand that sometimes a country has to look at it's budget and it's own citizens who are living in poverty, and for Hungary that often means the Rom (gypsies), and admit to itself that it cannot afford to help.
I'm not picking on Hungary here. Hungary can fit in our state called "Indiana," but I actually think that until the United States houses all it's own homeless it should stop being parental to the world.
I look at it from a one person standpoint. I have friends who I like and care about who are in need and maybe I can invite one of them over for dinner once in a while, and I can afford to share food, but I'm not able to pay their rent.
Hungary is also concerned about Moslems because of a history of being occupied by the Moslem Turks for a substantial amount of time, that Christianity and Christian values will be threatened by too many of these refugees. It may be unpopular to say, but I can understand these fears, especially when it comes to the value, attitudes towards, and treatment of women.
The United States is thought of as a Satan country by Moslem terrorists. That's why we had 9/11 et el. A family of Moslems lives down the street peacefully and no one seems to think badly of them just on that basis, but as they are surrounded by people with Western Ways, they must tolerate knowing that their neighbors include people who have sex without being married, women with educations who work at jobs full time and don't have families, and so on.
Germany has taken thousands of refugees willingly. Germany's economy can afford more. But as I read around the subject, hours of reading, I found ONE EXCELLENT QUESTION that we should all be asking which is WHY ARE THE WEALTHY MOSLEM DOMINATED COUNTRIES NOT TAKING THESE REFUGEES?
Why are they running all the way to Europe? Is it the reputation of these countries? Is it that they perceive that the Western World is overall wealthy? How many of them wish to make major changes in their point of view and lifestyle to fit in, contribute, and cooperate?
Let me make this personal once more. One of my friends in need has eaten a dozen times at my table this year, and if I could not afford it I wouldn't invite him so no I don't feel used, and on occasion he brings a loaf of bread or a bottle of wine or some other contribution, but has never offered to wash a dish. Compare him to the friend who is also in need, also eats, sometimes contributes, but who always offers.
All for Now!
C 2015 Magyar American BlogSpot All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights
Tuesday, January 3, 2012
CONSTITUTION OF HUNGARY as of JANUARY 1 2012
Constitution of Hungary link above! HERE IS JUST A SMALL PART OF WHAT IT SAYS!
"We acknowledge the role Christianity has played in preserving our nation. We respect all our country’s religious traditions.
We promise to preserve the intellectual and spiritual unity of our nation, torn apart by the storms of the past century.
We consider the nationalities and ethnic groups living in Hungary to be constituent parts of the Hungarian nation.
We pledge to cherish and preserve our heritage: the Hungarian culture, our unique language, and the man-made and natural riches of the Carpathian Basin. We recognise a bond of duty towards our nation’s future generations; we shall therefore strive to preserve and enhance the circumstances of those who come after us by sound management of our material, intellectual and natural resources.
We believe that our national culture makes a rich contribution to the diversity of a unified
Europe."
"We acknowledge the role Christianity has played in preserving our nation. We respect all our country’s religious traditions.
We promise to preserve the intellectual and spiritual unity of our nation, torn apart by the storms of the past century.
We consider the nationalities and ethnic groups living in Hungary to be constituent parts of the Hungarian nation.
We pledge to cherish and preserve our heritage: the Hungarian culture, our unique language, and the man-made and natural riches of the Carpathian Basin. We recognise a bond of duty towards our nation’s future generations; we shall therefore strive to preserve and enhance the circumstances of those who come after us by sound management of our material, intellectual and natural resources.
We believe that our national culture makes a rich contribution to the diversity of a unified
Europe."