Showing posts with label 1867 - Austrian-Hungarian Military Gen Tips. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1867 - Austrian-Hungarian Military Gen Tips. Show all posts

Saturday, March 11, 2023

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : USING THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF HUNGARY : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 3

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : USING THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF HUNGARY : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 3


We're not totally dependent on FamilySearch (or any other database in the United States of America) to find the records that are originally sourced from Hungary.  We have the use of HUNGARICANA which is the database that originates in the country of Hungary and is a function of the National Archives in that country. The archives hold military records that go beyond what we've just looked at in the FamilySearch catalog.

HUNGARICANA cultural portal   You will see a number of database categories on this start page.

I put the words "military 1876" into the search and up came a number of readable books that are in English...  I know that the language presents difficulties for those who are not native in it... I know that personally, so I don't want those of you who never had or lost the language to be totally deterred from doing Hungarian research... search using English words and see what comes up!

THIS LINK TAKES YOU TO A BOOK IN ENGLISH THAT WILL TELL YOU WHERE MILITARY RECORDS CAN BE FOUND IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF HUNGARY...

https://library.hungaricana.hu/en/view/MALE_Sk_2006_mo-i_leveltarak_angol/?query=military%201867&pg=0&layout=s  


ARCHIVES HUNGARICANA HU - LIST  See the links to other regional archives.



Few genealogy projects are entirely dependent on military records. So, if you do not find the men in your family, who most likely did have to serve that two years on these records, don't feel too bad. I’m personally chasing down an ancestor because of a note on a marriage record that he was in the reserves and the man was born in 1850.

To bring up ALL posts in this series click on the label 1867 - Austrian-Hungarian Military Gen Tips 

C 2023-2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot All Rights Reserved including International and Internet Rights. 


Saturday, March 4, 2023

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : TRANSLATING THE DOCUMENTS : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 2

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : TRANSLATING THE DOCUMENTS : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP # 2 

Depending on church records mostly for your research, you may find notations on marriages in particular that the groom is an officer -  tiszt,  or a soldier - hajdu, or you might see the word hadsereg - army. (Some men married by proxy while serving!) There might be a notation on a child's baptism that the father is serving. 

I'm using FamilySearch TM and the following records to discuss how to use these.  

Specifically, I'm using the following record group.

Katonai nyilvantartasi jegyzek 1863-1888   (List of Military Records) 

Gonc  Hadkiegeszito Parancsnoksag (Main Author)

Published in 1962 by Filmre vette a Genealogical Society of Utah 

I'm using film #008737879 and film #008737839 (but there are four categories available.)

These are Muster Rolls from the Gonc Military District.

There are notes that this film covers the years 1866-1876 (and birth dates 1841-46 and 1850 - 1856, suggesting that there are missing pages for men born 1847-1849) However another film many include some men born during that period.

These records are from Abauj county.  Before the split up of Hungary, Abauj county had much more territory than it does now, when parts of it are now Slovakia and towns now have Slovak names.  So these records have the potential to cover a lot of territory.

Some of the places mentioned include Goncruska, Szanto, Telki Banya, Fony, Crizoly, Also Reymecz, Ujfalu, Felso Dobfzu, Hejcze, Hermad Keres, ...

Gonc (also seen in archival records as Goncz and Gontz) was historically a civic center, a place of governmental administration, though it appears to be a small, unimportant town today. These military records include those men who came from the surrounding area. The four categories hold records that are thousands of pages and no index is forthcoming. In fact, I sense that the original records that FamilySearch microfilmed decades ago in archives within Hungary, were intended as a kind of index. But more on that later. *********

My experience:

First of all the FamilySearch SEARCH function in which you put in the film number was not working. I'd taken down the number 8737879 on notes and tried to use it in their SEARCH feature to bring it up. It did not work. I tried it with and without the 00 in front of the number.  I tried it multiple times.

Therefore, you may have to bring these up by going into the CATALOG function. Search in the CATALOG for Gonc (the name of the town) and then choose military records. You'll see the word Gonc twice as it is the town AND the Military District

Across the top of the records you will see columns/categories of information which are in Hungarian and sometimes in Hungarian and Old German lettering. Some of these were not properly written in the first place. So here are the corrections, sans the accent marks.

THE COLUMNS  

(Please note that this discussion covers the version used quite a bit but there is also a shorter version and a longer version existing on this film.)

1) a kozseg neve de osszeir asi jegyzekenek szama

This translates to "the name of the group and the number of notes."

In general this means "Where the person is from" because the name of the group is named after the town.  (This does not necessarily mean that this is where a soldier was born but think of it was where the person was living when it came time to serve in the military.  And there is a good chance it is also where they were born.)

On pages to the far left you will see a list of numbers, and that is where they hand wrote the numbers of notes otherwise thought of as "items."

2) Sorz szam

This translates to "Serial Number" and I see that this column is often blank.

3) A hadkötelesnek csaladi es kereszt vagy elo neve

This translates to "The conscript's family name and first and last name."

This sounds awkward.  It might be thought of as "soldier's name, first and last" however, I believe it is stated this way because sometimes a "family name" is not the same as the soldier's first and last name. This is because there is an understanding that some people come from a "House" such as a Noble House or a Clan (which would be the family name) and within that House  or Clan they have another name.  For instance, as a made up example, a person might be going by the name Janos Kovacs but come from a noble lineage Andrassy. On other records you might also see this written Janos Kovacs alias Andrassy.  There could be a variety of surnames that are associated with the House or Clan, harkening back to the ancient days. After looking at hundreds of pages, I haven't seen this written in, but the column heading allows for that possibility. Instead we are finding a first and last (or surname) simply with notation that the person is a noble. 

4) Szuletesi i eve

Translates to "year of birth."  Ahmm.  Birthday

Usually only a year is given.  But this is where you must be careful not to assume. The records are arranged so that the men are listed by year born, and the older they are, the earlier that year. And the older they are - in general - the LATER they are on the record/film. It's too bad full birth dates are not given. 

As I click along, reading page after page, I see that some effort is also made to group men by their home location.

5) szylet es helye  

translation? year and place  Think Location, Location, Location,

jaras is singular form of jarasok translating to district.  The Hungarian megye (county) was further divided by districts. Think of an American county, further divided by Townships.

megye means county

orszag means country

In general I see the name of a town listed again, often matching the first one mentioned.  So a man served or was in the reserves fairly close to home.

 6) vallas allapot - religious background

These records include men of Catholic (R.K.), Reform (Ref.) (Protestant), and Jewish background. They overall include people of all religious backgrounds. Greek Catholic (Gr.C.) may indicate that the family has Carptho-Rus (Ruthenian, Rusyn) heritage, or Ukrainian, or Slovak.  Evangelical (Eve) indicates they are Lutheran, indicating the family may have German heritage. Zsido is the term used for Jewish, though I have also seen Israelite (Isr).

Notlen - unmarried

Nos - married

Gyermek - child  (implied is a father)

vagy azok or those

nelkul - without

(Who would make a better recruit? A man who needs to support a family or man who won't leave a wife and children if he dies in military service?)

7 - 10) 

tudasa - awareness  (i.e. is this person intelligent? informed?  Educated? Have any special skills?)

olvasus - reading

iras - writing

zene - music

mesterseg - handyman

(This is about a man's education, and so how he might be useful to the military.  I like that they ask if the person knows music. Implied he plays an instrument or sings which might be useful if they march.)

11) az atyanak csaladi kereszt vagy eloneve

This translates to the father's family cross or first name...

The "family cross" is implied to be the family shield/ name, again this refers to noble House or Clan.

What I see in general is the name of parents (implied unmarried soldier) or the name of a wife (if married) but read across-

12) haz szam helyseg kozseg hol a hadkote les lakik

translates to "house number, location, district, where the soldier lives."

If this is filled out, it could be interesting.  It might tie into church records and other census.  It's a possible lead or secondary document.  

13) test nagy saga translates to the saga of the body or body story  hmmm....

test nagy saga translates to... I admit this word choice seems strange but it seems to be saying... "According to the little bird."  And we used to say "A little bird told me..." to indicate gossip - something personal.

Roughly, what does this person say about their health? How big are they? Basically it appears to be all about how TALL they are, and based on contemporary heights, these men are seemingly about as tall as Napoleon...  I see this column is left empty quite a bit.

On some forms:

mell merteke - breast courage  indicates a measurement size of chest . They need uniforms. (I see a soldier standing straight up to full height and sticking out their chest!)

Overall I'm reminded that people seem to have grown taller through the decades, because we have better nutrition. 

14) lelet az utolso allitasnal   Finding with the last alliteration/statement.

le lett az utolso   The last one is down.

Let's try the German :  

befund bei der bebten stellung  means "findings in the trembling position"?...

So - my genealogy friends - this seems to be asking "When the going gets rough, how does this man bear up? How does he act? Does he have courage? Or is he a weakling?

Hajdu means soldier.  So when I see hajdu written in, I figure that man has passed some test of courage or endurance or wit.

15) az ava stasi bizott many lelete reszrol  Findings /basis for findings by the committee/ commission

Katona - Military   Polgar - Civil

The absence of notes in this column indicate to me that this was probably only used if a soldier got himself in some trouble and therefore had to go into some review in which he was judged and some determination was made.

16)  az avatottnak be osztas  - for the initiated

iranti  - on

ki va - who is

na ta  - so there you are

I tried a translation from the German and it was worse.  asically, I believe this column is to express information on who is who, what their rank is. 

17) az avatas napja az ezred - the day of initiation is the regiment

Hadtest - corps

vagy osztaly neve - or class name

melyhez beosztatott - to which he was assigned

18) eszrevetel - perception (final assessment overall)

Other words encountered:

korostaly - old age.  These men are not elderly, they're just a bit older, still in their early twenties, so what is indicated is that they have probably nearer to ending their term of service.

Further the record will state where the person is stationed, if it is not in their hometown. In general it appears that most men served fairly close to their hometown, which probably made visiting family, taking care of personal adult responsibilities, and especially, being a reservist, easier on them and their families. These were agriculture economies in which the men's labor was very much needed.

Commentary:

The records are and are not arranged as one might expect.

Alphabetical, yes, however only by first letter. That means that it may appear to be fully alphabetical, taking into consideration every letter in a surname in some places, but do not be too quick to think the surname you seek is not listed  If the surname you are using begins with Sz, look through ALL of the letter S.  And so on.

To bring up ALL posts in this series click on the label 1867 - Austrian-Hungarian Military Gen Tips 

C 2023-2025 Magyar-American BlogSpot All Rights Reserved including International and Internet Rights. 

Slightly edited on April 8, 2023  


Saturday, February 25, 2023

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUNGARIAN MILITARY UNDER AUSTRIAN RULE : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP #1

1867 COMPROMISE MILITARY RECORDS - WHEN AUSTRIA RULED HUNGARY : A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUNGARIAN MILITARY UNDER AUSTRIAN RULE : HUNGARIAN GENEALOGY PRO TIP #1


If you've traced your ancestry back to the days of the Austrian Empire's rule of Hungary you may find some notes in church or other records that mention that a man is serving or has rank in the military. This can be an interesting addition to your genealogy and family history story.

Here is a brief and general history of Hungarian Military under Austrian Rule focused on the records that we'll be looking at: 

In 1867 it was determined that Hungary and Austria were separate "states" though many a Hungarian never thought of themselves as Austrian or thought of Austria as anything other than an occupier of Hungary.  (Thus the uprisings mid 1800's, in particular 1849.)

Prior to this men who turned 18 had the expectation that they would serve in the military. It had been three years of service but, in what was considered a Compromise, in 1867, that was reduced to two years. 

Prior to this some men paid for another man to take their place, but now they could no longer use this legal way out, though perhaps by paying someone else to serve in their place, they could have then attend to their education or family business. It might have been a good opportunity for a poorer man to take the place of a richer one, particularly a noble one, for military service had long been a way for some men to advance their education, work, and status. Being the servant of a noble, especially in the days of castle defense, had elevated some to the "castle noble" nobility as well. So if you and your family were scratching out a living, serving for someone else really could be a good opportunity, especially if you were a younger son who might not be expecting an inheritance. Especially if service was not seen as especially risky because it seemed to be a time of peace. 

Then again, maybe, seeing that you were the one the family could not do without, you might ask a relative to substitute for you... and not have to pay him! 

From 1815 to 1848 the Austrian military was experiencing a long period of peace rather than a long time at war, with just a few military actions. But who knew how or when war might break out and things could change?  (They sure did when World War I broke out!)

So in 1867 the rules about military service changed. When a man turned 18, he had to sign up for what was a draft, sort of like the lotteries used to call up American citizens to serve in our Vietnam war. Annual lotteries were used to call up men to serve from the entire draft enrollment - not just the 18 year-olds. So it wasn't that if a man turned 19 he would not be called. He might duly serve his time and get out and go back to his life. Some might have been able to distinguish themselves in some way and stay in a while, perhaps have a career.

A man who was born in 1849 would have turned 18 some time in 1867. Do a little math to see if and when your ancestor would have been eligible to sign up for that new draft lottery and serve!

(It could be interesting to find out that your ancestor was part of the mid century uprisings about that time. From our view looking back those who rose up were Hungarian patriots who wanted Hungary to have it' freedom from Austrian rule. However the military squelched the uprisings.)

Circa 1867, when the changes were made, if the man were NOT called up to serve by lottery for the two years, then he HAD to be in the Reserves or in a "territory" militia. The territory was actually the COUNTRY of Hungary and in Hungary the military was called the Honved.  (Austria was a territory, so was Croatia.) Like today, to be in the Reserves he had to attend some meetings, some training. He had to be ready to serve if needed. So when you hear that all men had to serve, it's true; some were in the Honved and some were in the Reserves.

There was also an opportunity for the men who were educated, say college candidates, to volunteer for a year. This was a bit like the role of ROTC in the United States in which men who went to college on ROTC scholarships and graduated were moved into the leadership roles as officers for Vietnam. Hungary was a bit special in this regard because many of the reservists who volunteered for a year with the army were Jewish.  The records reflect religious diversity at the time.

Though we are focusing on this new era 1867ish, it wasn't until 1918, after World War I, when Austria no longer ruled Hungary, that Hungarian men no longer served for Austria.


The label 1867 - Austrian-Hungarian Military Gen Tips brings up all posts in the series.

*** This contemporary town heraldry shield for Gonc will be used to help identify this series of genealogy tips as this records held under this town's name will be the ones we look at.  

There are many more genealogy tips and links within MAGYAR-AMERICAN BLOGSPOT.


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