WAYS TO FIGURE DEATH OF AN ANCESTOR IF THE RECORDS ARE MISSING OR INCOMPLETE : HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES , READING DEATH RECORDS, GENEALOGY RESEARCH IN HUNGARY #5

Those of you who have been into genealogy for some time may already know this. Those of you who are early in your research may not realize; Warning! - This is a lot of work - a lot of time will be required.  I suppose it's about how motivated you are to go back further, another generation.

Because I'm an "extreme genealogist" I frankly enjoy the challenge.

1) Do your family group sheets. Often you find the birth/ baptisms of children is what reveals a married couple.

2) On some birth records, you may notice a cross mark which indicates death and a date listed. If the date is not listed and it's a baby, then the baby probably was still born or died soon after birth.

3) Notice the pattern of children born and the age of the parents. Is there a point where a reasonably fertile youthful couple stop having children?  You might make a timeline in which you figure the age of the mother at each childbirth.  

4) Notice if a given name has been used in that family before. That indicates that the child in the family first given that name has died, and so the name is being used again.  (This ties into a religious belief that God is giving a replacement child and blessing the couple. So many babies and children died without becoming adults before vaccinations, I often truly wonder how people could emotionally handle so much death.  Since it was happening all around them, though, they had the experience of "this is how life is.")

5) The remarriage of a man or woman almost always indicates the death of a spouse in those days before divorce, so the records may state that they had a previous marriage, that they are a widow or widower, and might mention the woman's previous married surname. (Don't be shocked if the remarriage comes soon after the death.  People were pragmatic and work was gender-based. Pressure was on to remarry.) Until you find a definite date, you would note "death previous" to the marriage date on your research.

5) Informal adoption : Notes may also indicate that a child's parent died. Sometimes you will notice on a marriage record that a mention has been made of a former parent's surname. Because adoption for common children was so informal, it could be that they went to live with relatives, or they may have started working to support themselves very young... This may be revealed also by doing a "house number"/ farmstead study, seeing who is living at the address and when.

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HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES NEED UPDATED MAPS AND DATBASES BUT... HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES , READING DEATH RECORDS, GENEALOGY RESEARCH IN HUNGARY #4

HUNGARY : CEMETERIES : NEED FOR UPDATED MAPS and DATABASES  https://rmx.news/hungary/grave-matter-hungarian-cemeteries-lack-up-to-date-maps-and-registries/

But please remember this: Many cemeteries in the United States, Hungary, everywhere, are missing tombstones - a grave was never provided one, or a wooden cross or other marker was destroyed by weather, or the stones were stolen or - in the case of some places in Europe - removed to be used for other purposes by the Nazi's, BUT THE POINT IS....  Just because a tombstone is not there does not mean that the burial didn't happen. And so...

CONTACT THE CEMETERY! As this article mentions, finding out who was buried and where might not lead anywhere... But some cemeteries have hundreds of burials recorded in their books that have no stones. The first place to look is the cemetery associated with the church in which you've found the record of death. If you are going to visit in person, make contact as far in advance as possible. Knowing a relative is going to visit may be inspirational to the care-taker.

CONTACT THE DIOCESE! Often burials in cemeteries that are religion-based are also recorded with the diocese and not just the local church.

CONTACT THE UNDERTAKER! Sometimes the funeral home keeps records which may mention where the burial took place. This is a more modern approach.

HOWEVER

The Jewish people have taken on cemetery projects in an admirable way. Starting many years ago, initially the idea was to visit cemeteries that had suffered from damage during the Holocaust, and from the neglect because generations had left Europe, and clean, straighten and record the stones, mow down the weeds, and sometimes erect other memorials.  

Here is an example ZEILSLER FAMILY PROJECT : EGER JEWISH CEMETERIES

And the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CEMETERY PROJECT EASTERN EUROPE

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MASS BURIAL OF SOLDIERS WHO FOUGHT OFF THE OTTOMAN TURKS IN THE BATTLE OF MOHACS - August 31 1526 - DISCOVERED : ARCHEOLOGY IN HUNGARY

The excavated remains are planned to be laid to rest of the 500th anniversary of the battle, which is on August 29, 2026, in a crypt in a chapel to be built there.

HUNGARY TODAY : MASS GRAVE : BATTLE OF MOHACS good photos of the dig

MIAMI HERALD : MASS GRAVE WITH THOUSANDS OF SKELETONS BATTLE OF MOHACS includes audio....  A dark day in Hungarian history, thousands dead in an hour, including the Hungarian King... Some were executed, some may have been prisoners.

This is quite the animation by Aditu Laudis

READING THE LATIN and MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE BACK IN THE DAY : HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES , READING DEATH RECORDS, GENEALOGY RESEARCH IN HUNGARY #3

  What did our ancestors know about the cause of death back in the 19th century and before that?  When there were no vaccines, when a C-section was only done to try and save the baby since the mother had already died in childbirth, and when average people rarely lived as long as we are expected to? It seems that the more populated the place, and the more likely an educated doctor, the more details or understanding there might have been.

I've been working with death records for some time and many have no connotations at all, rather the concern seems to be that last rites of the Catholic church were administered to the dying, and that a grave was provided. When we look at records we may see Latin being used, though sometimes other notes are in Hungarian. 

Latin was the universal language of the Roman Catholic church.

SOME CAUSES OF DEATH IN RECORDS FROM 19th and 18th century  Death = Halal 

Naturalis : a natural death.  In other words not an accident.  Can cover anything other than an accident but especially old age or being debilitated. Also Ordinaris - an ordinary death, nothing unexpected.  (So far I have found only one record, for a twelve year old boy, in which is was written tragikus baleset (in Hungarian, Tragic Accident.)

Note that handwritten F's may be used in some cases instead of S.

Tusis : (Tufis) cough  (Whatever ailed this person they were coughing a lot.  Can be a childhood illness or can be TB.)

Phthisis : pulmonary - TB or another progressive and systemic illness

Hydrops (Hidrop) : fluid in the tissues or edema (visible, this can indicate any end-stage of life including cancer.)

How much was understood about cancer is unknown to me. We now know there are very many cancers and generally the place they originated in the body is what they are called, i.e. "colon cancer" though it may have spread.

Aquio suffo - Aquio suffocatus : means suffocate with water (drowned) however, some illness the person's lungs or heart filled with fluid.

Dipenteria / Dipenterium : Prison  (Person died while in prison.)

Morbo grasante : morbid fat or fattening disease

Dolorum : Pain  Which might be followed by where the pain was such as Stomachi (Stomach), Internum (Internal), Guter (gut)... Our ancestors did not have much for pain control and death was often painful... Fajdalom = Hungarian 

Ulceribus : an ulcer or wound that would not heal, which could be due to an infection. Fekely =Hungarian  (A Note that this notation might also indicate the person had diabetes.)

Tumores : tumors.  These would probably have had to be visible or perhaps operated upon.

Febris : fever  laz=Hungarian

Senex : Old Person (senile?)

Plagues  (Wash your hands!)  Pestis = Hungarian 

Epidemia - Epidemic

Any illness that was the cause of many people to die was called plague, so Covid-19 would be considered a Plague.  Though we understand what caused some of these today, such as unsanitary conditions, bad water, fleas, some forms of plague are still not understood.

Typhus - (According to the CDC of the United States) Typhus fevers are a group of diseases caused by bacteria that are spread to humans by fleas, lice, and chiggers. Typhus fevers include murine typhus, epidemic typhus, and scrub typhus.  Fleas spread murine typhus, body lice spread epidemic typhus, and chiggars spread scrub typhus.

Cholera - (According to the CDC of the United States) Cholera is a bacterial disease spread through contaminated water and food. Cholera can cause severe diarrhea, dehydration, and even death if the disease goes untreated.  People living in places with unsafe drinking water, poor sanitation, and inadequate hygiene are at highest risk of cholera.  (kolera = Hungarian)

***

Provisus - provisions made for burial.  Often the name of the priest who performed Last Rites is given. 

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THE OFFICIAL WORD ON CIVIL RECORDS (VITAL RECORDS) TO BE ORDERED FROM HUNGARY : HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES , READING DEATH RECORDS, GENEALOGY RESEARCH IN HUNGARY #2

In 1895 Hungary began to require civil records (also called vital records) of deaths, marriages, and births to be kept by the government. Before that, records were to be kept by Christian churches or Jewish temples. You may be able to get both is some cases.

Privacy laws in Hungary are not the same as in the United States. Birth registers are kept closed for 90 (ninety) years. Marriage registers are kept closed for 60 (sixty) years.  Death registers are closed for 30 (thirty) years. 

And what you can order from Hungary also has to do with the map, because Hungary can only send you what is available in PRESENT DAY HUNGARY.  So you may have to find records now housed in another country.

LA CONSULATE GENERAL OF HUNGARY on ORDERING CIVIL RECORDS INCLUDING DOWNLOADABLE FORMS

If your Hungarian ancestors lived in what is now SLOVAKIA, you have to deal with Slovakia.  The site I'm linking to gives extensive information and is the work of Bill Tarkilich, to whom we are grateful.  IABSI -SLOVAKIA BILL

You may also find that your Hungarian ancestor lived in a place that became Yugoslavia, Austria, Romania... I did run into a problem when trying to retrieve Baptismal records (as a stand in for civil records) for a friend whose "Italian" family was in what was considered Yugoslavia, at the time of her grandfather's birth. The Diocese archive we contacted (in Italy) during Covid did not respond to us at all, the records were not in the Latter Day Saint's FamilySeach collection, and the local consulate was also unhelpful. She wanted Italian citizenship based on that grandfather, and I was unable to find out if Italy considers the course of history when identifying someone as Italian...

That said, it is possible that, though the place where someone was when they died is now in another country, their death record is still held by a diocese that was in Hungary at the time.

FamilySearch does have some civil death records in its database and I find searching by location is a first step.

So - If you have a very long-lived ancestor, you may just be in luck to find that when they died the civil registration was in place.  And on that death record there just might be the marriage or parentage you seek, either a confirmation of such OR new information. The civil death records also have addresses.  These may not align with current addresses...  You might want to ask when you get to tour the village!

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NEW SERIES : HUNGARIAN CEMETERIES : READING DEATH RECORDS, GENEALOGY RESEARCH IN HUNGARY #1

Hello my readers!  

I've decided to post genealogy research tips interspersed with some reportage on cemeteries in Hungary and the history of burials. We'll explore a bit together and it's my hope that by the end of this series, you will know much more about this subject.

This icon of an casket being pulled to the cemetery by horse and special cart will stand for the tag Hungary Death Records - Gen Tips, and when you click on that tag, it will bring up all the posts in the series.

In recent months I've made the most of using church death records to go back one more generation when the paper trail available for birth/baptism and marriages is not enough. I've written about using "house number" studies, before, and that has certainly been part of my personal research too. It was a labor of love to spend very many hours culling the death records for two villages that referred me to yet another, as the land was split among sons and some tenant farmers eventually inherited plots. I put together family groups and looked for the common ancestors among them, hoping there would be a reference or remark on one of the younger children's marriages that would help me identify who was whose father - and thus the father of the oldest child as well.

Of course, it would be interesting to take a trip to those villages and find tombstones that clearly identify some of the people on my charts. If they still stand or ever existed.

Are cemeteries in Hungary much different than American?

If you're an American, your notions about cemeteries may be about the cemetery your family uses, or perhaps the ones in your area, some which may not have markers, or simply small flat stones to identify the graves. Or maybe you know of a military cemetery in which the troops all have the same marker. I know of a cemetery in Santa Cruz where the single people were buried separately from the married, and where a small spot was for the Chinese.

Grave yards in Hungary in modern times have followed a rather predictable path that American grave yards have. People were buried on their own farmstead or where they fell in conflict. People were buried around a church. Or in a graveyard in which members were of a specific religion. As population increased and room around the church ran out, there was a movement into "park" settings, in which monuments could be larger and artistic. The public were encouraged to spend some time and stroll around to enjoy the scenery, even if they personally did not have any family buried there. 

But what is different is the history of The States and that of Hungary, for unlike Hungary, we have not had World War I or World War II, on our land, nor have we been punished for World War II involvement by loosing two thirds of our country's land. Yes, we did have wars, including the Civil War, in which many fell in battle, but you know that was not the same as the Holocaust. 

These days...

I have mixed feelings about tombstone projects. I believe that respecting the privacy of the dead is also about respecting the privacy of the living. Genealogy is about the past, our HERITAGE, and those connected to the dead who are alive should have their privacy respected.

Maybe the information doesn't feel so sensitive until you begin to see what I consider violations, such as people being allowed to put actual death certificates up to match the tombstone which give cause of death and more. I was outraged when I saw that being done at a popular tombstone search site. I'm feeling that cemeteries and burials - the whole funeral business - is becoming outrageous in costs.

So many people today are choosing cremation because the whole funeral business in the United States is financially burdensome and cremation is less expensive. There is also that some cemeteries actually consider the burial space you "bought" to be a rental and, when no family member can be located or afford to re-rent, have been known to "move" (loose) bodies.

A few years ago I had the death certificate of a woman who died in 1920 in the U.S. in hand and called the cemetery identified on it. The person I spoke with denied she was buried there and even suggested that the family might have "tried to do the right thing" by showing up with shovels in the night and putting her into the earth themselves. !!!  Then there was talk about how the place had been flooded and an old employee would have to be asked since maybe he would know where the grave was. When I said I had the death certificate and was calling to know where the grave was because some relatives from Texas wanted to pay respects, there was silence. I was requested to send the death certificate...  And the same man tried to suggest that when the grave was found, a new marker be put on it, which would cost $20,000... I could not believe what I was hearing.

So my genealogy quest hit into a sales spiel. I sent the death certificate (which mentioned the name of the undertaker, a business that was still in business into the 1970's) as well as the cemetery) and never heard back...

Oh how I felt for that woman who had been buried there, who had died at 26 of cancer, after having given birth to two children and who was likely quite sick when she gave birth to the second one. I wondered when last anyone had visited the grave. But perhaps visiting graves is not something people do much, not even on Memorial Day. Perhaps even those graves with expensive tombstones or markers go unvisited.  Do cemetery employees notice which graves have been "attended" by family?  I think they do.

To me, $20,000 on a tombstone is ridiculous. That's better spent on someone's college education.  And so I do not anticipate burial or a tombstone for myself.

But back to genealogy. I also have a sort of reverence for the people who came before me and who I would not know about if it were not for the research. I always research around the person, so I can better understand the kind of life they must have lead, and with that, the kind of life span and death. The priests in the villages were very busy people. I showed copies of a death register from the early 1800's to a friend who is an anti-vaxer and said "This is a testimonial to the need for childhood vaccines."

C 2025  Magyar-American BlogSpot  All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights.   This genealogy series can be brought up using the tag Hungary Death Records - Gen Tips