CELEBRATION

 

#4 DEATH RECORDS and the USEFULNESS OF TIMELINES : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH

Death records I've encountered that are so far indexed on GENETEKA seem to be the least useful. I was so hoping to confirm the rumors of how certain ancestors died but cannot even find the records despite carefully paging through. Most of the reasons why someone died reveal that medical knowledge was not so advanced as it is today. I have often wondered at old people dying of "inflammation." I think this means the person probably retained water and appeared swollen by the time they died, which happens with some cancers.

I find creating a TIME LINE in which you note the dates of children who were married and what it says about their parents (i.e. is one of both deceased?) will at least help you limit your research.

Starting with a person's birth, follow them through the years for marriages and children. If you notice they are called a widow or widower on a remarriage record, then you know that by that time their previous spouse died.  If a child marries, his parents will likely be listed and it will translate to something like:

Jan, the son of the d.p.  (deceased parent) Marcus, and Marianna Sobato, means that at the time of his marriage his birth father was deceased, so there is a date that can limit your research in a positive way, but the mother is alive. By listing the births of children to Marcus' wives, and finding their marriages, you may get closer to the date of his death.

Additionally, you may have to go to the records that are not yet indexed or question what is indexed.

HERE IS MY BIG COMPLAINT ABOUT GENETEKA INDEXING.

In Hungarian records it seems understood that a woman is listed by her maiden/birth name at birth, marriage, and death, though in her community she is known as the married woman, Mrs. Szabo or Szabone. (ne suffix.)  However, in the Polish records I found women listed under their previous married name in the database. If someone has not noted that with a little :i: (information) icon then basically, you'll have to discover this yourself by reading the original records. Going to the information about her parentage is important so that you have her maiden/birth name. So, you may have to dismiss the database surname of the bride in marriages and go with what you know about the groom rather than the bride's surname.  More than one of my ancestors had three marriages due to the deaths of their first two spouses and that a careful indexer bothered to read and note the maiden name on each was of great help and made me aware this was not the case with every indexer.

C 2022 Magyar American BlogSpot

All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips- Galicia

WHO ME?

 

#3 THE CONCERNS OF THE PRIEST - MARRIAGES : GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH

Jewish records (and other minority religions such as Lutheran and Mennonite records) are available in special archives in Poland and JewishGen is a helpful database site for Jewish records. 

So far GENETEKA is primarily Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic records. Appearing in Greek Catholic records may indicate that the person is of Ruthenian (such as Lemko) heritage or of a different ethnic heritage than Hungarian or Polish. Research the surname as well, however, because there was intermarriage, especially as we go through the 1800's into the 1900's.  Also given names will be a clue as to religion and ethnicity- more on that in another post.

Be aware that if a couple moved to a village where there was only a Roman Catholic church, they might attend and worship there, and so it was with Greek Catholic churches in villages. In America they might settle where an ethnic church and belong there. There might also have been agreements between the couple to raise some children in one religion and others - the other. Typically, if the mother was Greek Catholic, she might want her daughters raised in that church but might allow her sons to follow their Roman Catholic father. **

Just think practically. A person would work hard all week and want to see Church as a pleasure - a respite - and a social opportunity - but how far do they really want to travel?  On foot?

If the town also had a Jewish temple, that might indicate that it has a larger population than a village.

What might indicate a "mixed" marriage?  Well, if the priest writes in that Banns of Marriage have occurred in two different parishes or churches, that is a clue. Sometimes the name of the church or the name of the other village appears.  Check these out on church and village history sites!  You may find the name of the church, see photos of it, even find it on a YouTube video tour.

What are banns of marriage?  A public announcement - back in the day usually from the pulpit - that a couple plan to marry.  Usually three Sundays in a row.  The idea was to give people who know the individuals to voice an objection to the marriage and stop it.  A popular story device on soap-operas for sure!  Check those dates for the day of the week they occurred.  Usually this was right before the marriage - but not always.  How much time passed between the third announcement and the marriage ceremony?

What were the good reasons to object?

Knowledge that a person is already married to someone else.  Or that the person promised marriage to someone else who is alive.

In some cases, that there is some dispute involving the inheritance (of land usually) that needs to be resolved first.  (Remember that Old Europeans did a lot of match making and that villagers might have decided what child would marry who when they grew up long before.  Sure there were love matches but these were practical people.)

Knowledge that the man - potential father in particular - is not capable of supporting a family.

Too close a relationship.  You will find that whole villages are somehow genetically related - many families intertwining. Still there was a general idea that too close cousin marriage was not a good idea.

A strong parental or authority figure objection or for some reason the marriage is seen locally as not good for the community.  

The priest will record the names and parentage of the bride and groom including their ages.  In some records the actual birth date is listed.  If it says 11/3/1879 that means March 11, 1879.  The day is first, the month is second.

Did people really not know how old they were?  Or lie.  It seems sometimes this is true. In my experience they are not too far off.

Legitimacy.

This is not just about being celibate until married for holy religious reasons. The priests baptized so many babies and the illegitimate ones tended not to thrive without the support of a father and everybody knew it. Remember at this time most women were wives and mothers and outside income was the husband's role. Sad to say but some women were taken advantage of by seducers, sexual harassers, and rapists.  And sometimes people had affairs. The most important aspect of marriage was for the bearing of and raising of children. You see the death records and you see how few children made it to adulthood and begin to feel a sense of amazement when you notice someone died in their 70's because of senility (they were just old.)

The socio-cultural-religious system endorsed marriage as the best economic way as well.

One of my ancestors was married three times due to his wives dying before he died.

If you see one woman with multiple illegitimate children - no father's name or heritage mentioned - she may be someone who is unlucky in love, a prostitute, or having an affair with a married man.  Follow her if you can and see if she every marries.  ****

If you take the DNA test and it proves you are not the actual genetic heir of a person on your chart, well it's not unheard of.

C 2022 Magyar American BlogSpot

All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia

Added note Feb 3 2022  Greek Catholic records do not conform to the Julian Calendar at all times and are usually behind.  I.e Roman Catholic Christmas is December 25th, Greek Catholic (or Orthodox Christmas) is January 16th.  Which means that if a person you are seeking on records was baptized in a Roman Catholic Church on Christmas, that same person baptized in the Greek tradition would show in records baptized on January 16th - and a different year! However, you'll have to research to find out when and where there was conformity and my feeling is this.  If the records are in Latin or Polish and not Cyrillic script, then they are likely following the Julian Calander. 

** But since the Roman Catholic Church used to insist that anyone who married there would promise to raise their children Roman Catholic, you may find the children all follow the parent whose church they married in.

*** see also how long the children live. 

Added note April 2023  JewishGen appears to have sold their database to Ancestry TM.

Added note April 2023.  Geneteka is uploading some Lutheran records under the term Evangelical.

#2 LOOKING AT AN ARCHIVAL DOCUMENT GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH

GENETEKA GENEALOGY POLAND  the important link!

PROS

1) Your need to read Polish is minimal because like many church records in Europe, LATIN is used.

2) If you can get through some handwriting hazards, there are good Latin- English and Latin - Polish reference books at the library or on-line translators!  You will soon learn a Derelictus is simply a widow- not a worthless bum!

3) The columns or categories are generally obvious, be it that you are looking for marriages, deaths, or births.

4) You'll have to be patient for indexing is an ongoing project, one you may want to get involved with. So if an index helps you get to the person you're looking for, well, you can still get to the records from there.  If your ancestor doesn't come right up in the index, but you have some information from immigration documents such as from the steamship, draft registration, or citizenship papers, you might want to start by reading the records from that place.

5) Get maps and descriptions of villages easily on-line to help you understand your ancestor's geographic and cultural world. Begin with the link above that lists the 21 "Provinces" of today's Poland and record coverage.

CONS

1) There are missing records that will not ever be indexed because they are simply missing. This is because they were never collected, they were ruined by fire, flood, or some other disaster, or because of war, particularly World War II. Still start out hopeful.  (Great Grandma may have been born up in the mountains in the winter and her baptism may have been by midwife (common) and /or not reported at all.)

2) *** Some records you will find twice, in two different handwritings.  This is because a small local church might keep a record and then report it to the main parish.  It's helpful when one of these records is neatly written.  BE AWARE THAT FOR SOME REASON THE COPIES MAY NOT BE IDENTICAL and that you should look at both because some pages may be missing from the original books or the copy.

3) If you have the misfortune of finding a paper - such as a typed letter - tape - over the exact part of the book page you want - you can still write to the archive and ask someone to look under there!  Sometimes there were two images taken - the paper moved for one of them.

4) Watch for the naming of other locations when reading records such as where the bride or groom was born or lives at this time.  Nat. is an abbreviation for native.  It loosely means the person was born there but in general it means that person has lived there a long time.  Just like you might be born in Chicago but have moved to Denver 30 years ago. You stopped telling people you are from Chicago long ago.

5) You may be wondering why the person writing the record - usually the priest - has such an interest in what a person's ancestry and legitimacy is...  Be blessed that they actually wrote so much because you'll have the names of another generation back quickly.  Yes, in some records, especially way back, there may be missing information on the baptism. Such as the name of the mother.  (I hate that!)  The inclusion of the name of the midwife in both Christian and Jewish records intrigues me.  I think it was to say "This person knows this baby belongs to this mother!"

C 2022 Magyar American BlogSpot

All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia

YOU CALLED?

 

GENETEKA - USING THE POLISH GENEALOGY SOCIETY DATABASE for RESEARCH #1 LET'S GET STARTED

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Genealogy Tips- Galicia

Some of you who have Hungarian ancestry also have Polish ancestry, or/and Slovak or Ruthenian or Jewish or well, a "mixed" ethnic ancestry due to intermarriage in Europe or here in America. One of the main reasons a person may want to research using GENETEKA is that Galicia - a portion of Poland before and after the Austrian-Hungarian Empire - is part of this database. A challenge to all "Eastern European" research is the change of governments and borders.

I want to guide you in this research as I have in the past so those of you who read MAGYAR-AMERICAN BLOGSPOT for the genealogy tips and history should be interested in this.

GENETEKA is a volunteer driven group in Poland, the Polish Genealogical Society, and so it is a database in progress. SCANS link to exact pages or to other archives where you will personally scan through more images to get to what you want at other sites.  (There are also opportunities to post or reach indexers which do not translate into English.)

I want to assure you that when you begin to read church records closer to the shared border, you will find some surnames that are not Polish as well as mentions of places in Hungary, in particular if you are researching in a town known for a market, or for export or import of crops or wines.  You may also find some village names that are Hungarian because those villages were part of a parish system of keeping records. 

Merchants in particular seem to have found reason to marry in a Polish parish, having found their love there.*

You may also find reference to men who were in the military - The Austrian army - during the period of time when Austria ruled.

On occasion you will find mention of conversions, generally Jewish to Catholic.

And you will be challenged because there were significant intermarriages between Greek Catholics and Roman Catholics.

So take a look at the site and we'll begin!

THIS LINK IS TO A MAP GENETEKA GENEALOG Y POLAND

C 2022 Magyar American BlogSpot

All Rights Reserved including Internet and International Rights

This post is part of a series on the subject.  To pull all the topics up, click on the tag Pro Genealogy Tips - Galicia

*Note added Feb 3 2022.  I'm also coming across a number of ex military men in their thirties marrying young women after exiting the military.

Here are some examples found reading the DUKLA, POLAND PARISH which includes several smaller settlements.

Scan 19 of 184 has the 1850 remarriage of Julianna Btazek, the daughter of Joannes Rajet and Mariann Sencel who is a native of Hungaria - the village is named but I can't make it out.  She is 52 and marrying a widower who is 60, Martin Gotezinski,

There is also the marriage of Josepha Catharina Bacr?  who was born in Falkessa (Kassa?) Bohemia.

ONE FOOT

 

SEND ME A COMMENT!

 How have you come to my blog?

Are you searching for some specific information or just curious?

Are you Hungarian or of some Hungarian ancestry?

Are you interested in family history or genealogy?

Do you have any ideas or recommendations for me?

Comments are all reviewed before published.  If you do NOT want me to publish your comment, write DO NOT PUBLISH on it.

|THANKS FOR YOUR INTERST in MAGYAR-AMERICAN BLOGSPOT